I don't have much experience with the W4S, aside from having heard it at shows. I always thought it sounded great in those venues, but couldn't make a fair comparison. But, since the thread started, I picked up a PWD Mk II and PWT, and it's pretty safe to say that my digital needs for the next few years are taken care of. I've been extremely happy with the units.
I'd spent a bit of time in the PS Audio room at RMAF after the PWD/PWT debuted and had been impressed with it then. The fact that they offered customers who had purchased the original unit a clear upgrade path reinforced my decision that it was the right way for me to go. As of now, I am just using the PWT with the bulkier HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cable. Perhaps down the road, I'll check out the Harmonic Technology Magic cable, but for now I have no complaints. I've also been using various laptops to stream and play back music files, and again, it sounds great. Whatever they are doing in terms of the Digital Lens, does seem to work to minimize differences in transports.
Down the road, I'll check out the Bridge and Silent Server, but I'm waiting to see how that plays out, in terms of their software eLyric and its development. I'm fine with Decibel, Foobar2k, and Rhythmbox for now, on their respective OS platforms. It will be nice to simplify down to one program for my stereo, but it seems to be a work in progress, according to the PS Audio forum reports. I feel fairly confident that they'll arrive at a nicely integrated digital front end solution, but I'm still going to wait a bit before jumping on it. I have most of my files in FLAC and don't have a strong desire to go the Apple music server route. I have high hopes for the Silent Server, but will wait until it's out for a while before getting that and the bridge. I may also look into the music servers sold by Sonore, which use Linux. We'll see.
If you haven't seen it, this review of the Mk II is also worthwhile reading for someone interested in the unit:
http://www.hifi-advice.com/PWD-MKII-review.html |
Thanks for your comments. I principally use a Bryston BDP-1 digital player to feed the W4S DAC2 with a Stealth Sexter AES/EBU digicable.. It is a great product. Occassionally use my modded CEC TL-1x with a Kharma RCA digicable. Best transport I have ever heard.
I have read the TAS review, which is what prompted my question. Still not sure whether to try the Mk II.
Neal |
Mr Tennis is spot on imho. I'd go one step further and specify/consider connection type and cabling. Sgr put it perfectly a few years ago when he said the pwd was " cameilian like"......or sensitive to its surroundings.
I found the pwd responded to even the slightest of tweaks/adjustments and changes. It's the first piece of gear I've owned where improved vibration control actually became audible and easy to detect. Connection type and wire are even more so.
You can make this dac sound any way you via supporting cast. The dac itself does/adds nothing to the recording (which could be bad for poor recordings). But for good recordings and hi res, I'm yet to hear a more musical dac.
Getting the pwd1 and not upgrading it to mk2 should be considered a crime =)
Yes....the mk2 sounds that good! |
I agree with Mr. Tennis. I hear people commit this error all the time.
Neal,
Have you seen Cordesman's review of the MKII in TAS? You can download it at the PSAudio website for free. |
when you compare dacs, you have to ask what transports are being used with them.
a particular transport that works well with one dac may not match as well with another.
so you have to compare dac/transport combinations. even if someone has compared both dacs with a particular transport, the outcome may change if the transport changes. |
6 months on with wider distribution of PWD MK II, any further comparos to share? I am very comfortable with W4S DAC2, especially since I connected it to Bryston BDP-1, but you know how it is . . . . As K D Laing sang, constant craving.
Neal |
Mcondon,
I think you're right on target about the digital lens. I'm auditioning the newest Shunyata digital XLR that is bettering my Harmonic Tech Audio Only HDMI to the I2S...something I didn't think was possible. I also find eupsample measly Pandora feed over a coax sounds significantly better than it ever did before the MKII board.
Btw, I bought my original PWD from Wally...great guy! |
Now I am really confused!
I plan on attending the NY Audio Show at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in 2 weeks, and I am sure they will have a full array of DAC's to listen to , although one never kniows which particular component is making the difference.
Neal |
I would giver Walter Leiderman at Underwood HiFi a call, as he carries both the Wyred 4 Sound and the Perfect Wave DACs. (He also prices the Perfect Wave DAC very "competitively", so the difference in actual price between the two DACs is not going to be as large the retail prices suggest.) I know that he told me that the W4S DAC2 was pretty close to the Perfect Wave DAC Mk 1. But that the Perfect Wave DAC Mk 2 is a big improvement over the Mk 1 version.
I personally own two sets of Perfect Wave DACs/Transports, one set for my stereo rig and one set for my headphone rig. I have owned them for a couple of years and -- despite changing virtually every other component in my system a few times, including preamp and power amp -- I have no desire to change my digital source. The Perfect Wave DAC/Transport is simply revelatory and was the single biggest upgrade to my system I have ever made. Larger than switching from a McIntosh MC275 power amp to a VAC Phi 200 power amp at a $5K jump in price. The Perfect Wave gear just seems to get digital "right". And I have tried a variety of other digital sources, including Ayon, Northstar, and Raysonic.
My one quibble with the Perfect Wave DAC was that the soundstage seemed a little narrow and didn't extend too far beyond the perimeter of my speakers. The MK2 version seems to address this quibble, creating a wider soundstage and better stereo separation. The MK2 version also has substantially better bass and improved inner detail/resolution. It is a significant upgrade over the MK1 version. My understanding from PS Audio is that the MK2 digital board also makes the Perfect Wave Transport somewhat less "essential", since every digital input (coaxial, AES/EBU, USB) now has the proprietary "digital lens" that dramatically reduces jitter and pre-ringing, making all inputs sound very nearly identical. I imagine one could now use a less expensive transport -- say an Oppo unit -- and still end up with fantastic sound quality. |
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I think it's worth noting that quite a few Meitner BiDat fanatics have switched to the PWD2. This crowd are known for their allegiance to "musical" DACs in a "reasonable" price range.
That said, I have to admit that the differences between the best 10 DACs could be considered relatively subtle. The reason I've settled on the PWD2 is that it hits my price/performance sweet spot. I'd have to spend more than twice its price to hear what I consider to be a significant improvement and I just don't have the green. Every DAC has a character and I could live with many of them. The PWD1 was a darned good DAC but it still had a somewhat digital quality that left me yearning for something better. With the PWD2, I find myself listening to my music and instead of focusing on my gear. What's that worth? I dunno, but I like it very much.
A final note: a buddy who moved on from the PWD1 to the Bel Canto battery powered flagship emailed me to ask whether I'd compared the PWD2 to the latest Bel Canto upgrade (MKII). I was unaware of the upgrade so my previous post does not apply to it. This is important because I trust my friend's good taste and he says the Bel Canto upgrade is stellar. The pace of digital improvement is crazy right now and I suspect strides in computing chips down the road will bring us to previously unattainable heights. |
Nglazer, I was responding to Tabl10s. His name is Neal, too. Sorry for the confusion.
Enjoy your further research into the PWD Mk II. I hope to hear one in a few months at the Newport Show. |
Thanks, all. PWD II sounds like it is worth a listen (pun intended).
Anonymoustao, I am not sure what review you are referring to. I didn't write anything about as review.
Peace.
Neal |
am yet to hear a DAC that beats my PWD MKII any where near its price point. the few much higher priced competitors i've heard don't best it either. when considering all the gear i've ever purchased...the PWT/PWD is the only thing i've never had a 2nd thought about. as already mentioned...the MKII upgrade takes it to yet another level. add I2S and the bridge/network playing capability to the equation and it's a home run/grand slam in my book.
do give it a listen. i think you'll agree. |
I own the PWD MKII and it is in a completely different league than the MKI. It's critical that if anyone compares this DAC with anything else that they have the 2.02 or 2.03 firmware installed. It's the most musical DAC I've ever heard, beating the Super modded Meitner BiDat as well as the latest T + A and Bel Canto gear. I know someone who's compared it extensively to the Berkeley (which it beats) but he says it doesn't quite reach the heights of the Meitner and dCs flagships. If a person buys the PWD MKI used and installs the MKII upgrade board (which you can do yourself) ..that's quite a good deal in my book. |
Neal, you're right. I didn't write it, and have my own doubts as to the article's assertions, so it is really is a non-issue. Sorry for getting huffy. Aside from any issue with writing or reviewing, I could not fathom owning a PWT and not getting the PWD. |
I don't have the dac, but a friend does(want to edit the system, but can't since the site update). If you didn't write the review, you shouldn't be upset. I can tell by the way he writes that he doesn't have much experience writing or reviewing.
Neal,
My friend is using RCA with my digital cable and also uses the Bridge. |
given that the price increase for the PWD Mk II puts it closer to the price territory of the berkeley alpha dac 2 and resolution audio cantata, it'd be great to hear if anyone has compared them. with the optional bridge and potential for I2S connection to the PWT, the PWD seems to take the cake as far as features, but purely based on sound, i wonder how the three compare. |
I own a W4S Dac1 and a PWD.. The W4S was very close to the PWD.. not as refined, as dimensional.. close but not quite as good, the Dac 1 is 90% of the Dac 2.. The big story here is the PWD MK2.. it is substanially better than the PWD Mk1, and is most likley as close to a SOTA Dac as you'll find at anywhere near the price.. I'll go out on a limb and say that unless you plan on spending five figures there isn't a better Dac than the PWD MK2.. and just an opinion is that even the multi kilo buck Dac's aren't going to be nessarily better than the PS Audio but different. |
for the record, i have never heard any of the DACs mentioned in that link for a long enough period of time to have an opinion with regard to his conclusions following his comparison.
but nglazer was asking for comparisons between the W4S and PWD and the fellow who wrote that had done a comparison between the W4S, PWD, and several other DACs.
whether or not you agree with his conclusions, it is a comparison.
i see you own a PWD, tabl10s. no wonder you found the link irritating. perhaps you can say something substantive to refute his assertions as to the relative merits of each DAC and help the OP, rather than making unhelpful comments addressed at me. |
tabl10s, perhaps you should have just ignored it instead of writing an irritating comment. |
Tao,
The link you posted was an irritating read and I wouldn't use his advice at all(I hope he doesn't speak the waynhe writes). |
Thanks! I am looking to PS Audio quite carefully and have contacted them directly. Also speaking with MSB Technology about their UMT Transport. |
I use a Bryston BDP-1 as a "transport" --not for CD's but for digitally stored music on HDD or thumb drive, and use the AES/EBU output to my W4S DAC2. Bryston was a gamechanger for me. not a believer in music out of a computer in the conventional sense. Too much going on in that small case.
Will broadcast if I hear any input -- so to speak.
Neal |
Neal:
If you're not interested in, 1) computer audio via the new MK2 USB interface, or 2) stored digital files via the Bridge,then I wouldn't recommend making the change. If you are strictly a CD user (for your digital), then you might consider the PWD MK2 and the PWT (via I2S), as that combo is definitely something to aspire to. If you get a chance to audition the PWD2/PWT combo, keep in mind that the PWD2/Bridge is (very) close. |
Hi Neal,
Cannot help...but pls post if you hear them. More interested in learning about the PS PWTransport II. particularly their i2s output and how the transport compares to the all-out transports: esoteric, mbl, cec, zanden, etc... |
i'd seen this comparison with the Mk I:
http://ravenda.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/a-happy-ending/#respond
but haven't seen a more recent comparison. i'm looking forward to the responses you get. |
