Primaluna?

I should not be so hard on SET. I get it, it’s fun. But they are touted as being "simpler" and first off, that doesn’t mean anything good and second, that’s not always true.

The great fact is they have a high output impedance. And if they don’t, there will be an additional stage that adds feedback to lower the output impedance. That’s it, kids.

The EVO300 and 400 have push-pull triode, and if you go back to the early days of high-fidelity, that was always considered to be state of the art. Because of speaker control. It’s quieter.

In 1951, David Hafler and Herbert Keroes changed everything. It’s called Ultra-linear. The vast majority of tube amps since have used it, and PrimaLuna allows you to access both PP triode and Ultra-linear from your remote. And PP triode will work better than SE in every parameter.

Now I know....I get it. I see the photos on the Decware website, and I can get all gooey about it as much as anyone, but I’m also pragmatic.

As to the number of amps being sold: 20 years ago I was selling tons of 845’s and 300Bs. Demand dropped. Period.

That doesn’t mean it’s some big deal decline, it means it’s not like mozartfan says and he can make all the videos he wants but he may be causing more harm than good. We get the phone calls from lost newbies that assembled a system that if they were advised properly, they never would have put together.

I love SET. I love bridge SET even more. I love all of it. I love all this stuff. I’m speaking from experience after doing this for 44 years as a living, and making my own mistakes and discoveries. I’m speaking to the uninitiated and there are tons of them here.

EDIT: I got a long letter from a guy just recently that bought the wrong stuff, and how he can’t afford to change it now because of the financial loss it would mean. I hate that.

If you can afford to experiment do it.  Have fun.  I've had the luxury of trying it all.  Audio is not just about measurements ONLY.  If you have the jack to do it, why not. 

Dealers participating 'passionately' in these forums is a double-edged sword. They may win some fans/customers, but also run the risk of alienating an equal number of people. Just sayin' ...

You are 100% right, and I rarely participate and should have limited my comments or not even commented at all. Sorry for that.  

I recognize there are a lot of great and very passionate people here with tons of experience. People that I've known for decades. To call out a group of people when there are only one or two of them saying things that I take umbrage with isn't a good idea. 

Plus I can see that for the rest of you guys that I respect so much, you already feel the same way I do and express it.  You don't need my help.  

I will shut up and only comment TACTFULLY on technical questions.  If that.  I have a lot of tasks to perform. and I'm under the gun here.  

Thanks guys and gals.

Yea sorry I got defensive. I was beat tired. Also want to say I do not want to imply ASL or Jolida don’t have U.S. support. I have zero idea. The guy I mentioned bought it used. But calling me elitist is a bit much when our first product in 2003 was a $1300 disruptor. And we keep it as real as we can today.   

I truly believe these low-priced tube products are a great boon to the industry and said that in an interview. They could be a major gift that dealers don’t recognize.

They plant a seed that there is something more fun and better sounding than an Alexa speaker on the counter. It fires the imagination. As people age and their income increases, they might upgrade. It’s always been like that.

Some manufactures don’t agree with me and see it as a threat. I think it’s one of the best things that can happen to our industry and we should be counting our blessings.

The old audiophiles are dying off. I get more young people getting involved with this than I ever would have guessed. And it starts somewhere.

Truth be told, if I could, I would rather be doing that all day. I love that stuff and that’s how Upscale started. Just tubes. If I could sit and bullsh*t I’d be in heaven, and that’s what I want to do by hiring people that know how to run a business and free me. 

I’ve got pallets of vintage gear I want to play with.

Ralph probably has a better temperament than I do on forums. He is the real deal. I can have a relapse and end up in rec.audio.opinion or rec.audio.tubes usenet mode.

I removed most of my posts, and wish nothing but good to all tube-heads. Even if it’s the cheapest all-tube amp on the market, and that’s all you can afford, I’d say go for it.

Tubes can change everything you thought you knew about communicating with music.

Noted. Thanks @tsushima1

And there is something to be said about the craziest of stuff. I remember the old days at CES in the Riviera hotel, and you could barely walk into many rooms it was so hot. Then this dude plugged in an amp...some crazy ass deal that slips my mind, and he took out the whole wing of the hotel. No electricity. So SET, OTL, it’s all fun.

OTL especially for headphones. OMG

I apologize to the group for going overboard on stuff I should never have talked about.  I need to meet with my accountant about the joys of 50 states of tax nexus and I am trying to avoid anything that bores me.

I will answer this question only from my perspective and PrimaLuna.  If you have a budget of $20k for amp and speakers, that's $5595 for an EVO 400 Integrated and $14,405 for speakers.  In some cases an EVO300 is just as good, so if you got that one add $900 to your speaker budget.  

If you bought an EVO400 preamp ($5295) and power amp ($5295)  that would leave you $9410 for speakers.

Assuming that's your budget I might suggest integrated and better speakers.  That extra $5k can take you a long way, and speakers are hugely important. 

If you are BUILDING, then it may different:  Yes, having a preamp is better, and our amps are not the exact same as the integrated amp because they have a different design and different transformers.  The integrated amps have a 4ohm tap and an 8ohm tap.  

The power amps have a 4, 8, and 16ohm tap to more closely match a wider array of speakers, and that's important. 

The cool thing is if you add another power amp something happens:  You have dual-ouput transformers, one for positive and one for negative side of the signal.  This is not common because it can cause problems.  Our tube engineer Marcel Croese created countermeasures that allows it and increases sound quality. 

It's incredible when you monoblock any PrimaLuna.  It's quieter. Output impedance drops, and that means better bass.  Instead of the speaker taps being 4, 8, and 16ohm they are 2, 4, and 8ohms.  Magnepan and Martinlogan owners love it. It's the reason that Martinlogan has used PrimaLuna at shows in the past.  

But in my opinion sometimes people are over-amped and under-speakered.