2. amps-preamps
  3. 152875-3731

PrimaLuna Dialogue Preamp = emotionless?

After years of running a PS Audio Direcstream dac directly into ATC active floorstanders, I decided to take everyone’s advice and add a preamp into the mix. I picked up a used PrimaLuna Dialogue with highly regarded Mullard CV4003’s and Phillips 5R4GYS’s, the tubes purchased by the original owner five years ago from Upscale Audio, a terrific source. My correspondents were correct about adding a good preamp: it transforms everything in a very big way. That’s the good news -- and bad. The latter is the reason for posting.

Before the preamp, this was a modestly warm system, for which the Directstream is known. It was one in which it was not hard to find myself drawn into the music and performance. Since adding the PrimaLuna however, I find myself watching -- or listening to -- emotion but not feeling a thing. That is, beyond marveling at the other characteristics of the presentation. After that, I’m left perfectly cold - 100%. This is not at all what I expected -- or desire.

So what to do... Is there anything I should look at with the preamp? What about other preamps, preferably tube ones? The skinny these days is that tube gear developers are trying to imitate the "neutrality" of solid state, the so-called modern tube sound some call it. With the PrimaLuna, I was expecting to find a point in between the classic tube sound and the common solid state one, but what I’m hearing is more than a little distant from that.

(Other than adding the PrimaLuna and not having Ultimate beeswax fuses in the DS and PL currently for other reasons, nothing else in my system has changed: modified Oppo 203 w/ digital output only, PS Audio P15 Regenerator and AC-12 power cords, and MG Audio Design AG2 ICs,)
highstream

Showing 2 responses by mulveling

mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,774 posts
 
@paulcreed
I had a BAT BAT VK5i a long time ago, with a similar experience - based on reputation I thought I was in for an amazing preamp listening experience, but it definitely was NOT a joy to listen to. Tried tube rolling, including Tung-Sol 5881, etc. At best, maintaining all those tubes and keeping noise low was a nightmare. That said, my system was a mess back then with a lot of problems - but I certainly wouldn’t ever give the VK5i another try.

But all else being equal (and it never is), I do believe weight (meaningful weight) and parts quality are at least somewhat correlated to sound quality. I definitely don’t see anything wrong with Kevin’s PrimaLuna pitch on that front.
mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,774 posts
 
Wow I didn’t realize the PrimaLuna preamp uses such a large heap of 12AU7. I’ve had 3 or 4 amps & preamps that use these tubes, and every time the 12AU7 has ended up seeming like the major bottleneck in system performance. I tried some of the NOS 12AU7 and 5814 to solve the problem, but only got so far - still sounded like the "12AU7 bottleneck". Then I used the 12BH7 sub whenever there was enough heater current overhead available to supply them (they are a drop-in sub otherwise) - and the result was always a much more dynamic, engaging, "alive" sound. 13D5 has been pitched as an excellent sub too, and (I think) has the huge advantage (versus 12BH7) of not drawing extra heater current (which you’ll probably need for your application) though I’ve not personally tried them.

I’d recommend not burning more money chasing NOS 12AU7, and try some of these sub types which are simply superior sounding to 12AU7.

The E80CC recommended above also look cool, and don’t draw extra heater current either. I think anyone who’s spent time looking for 12AU7 alternatives has realized how much the 12AU7 actually sucks.
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