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The balanced standard is important to me for the reasons you have pointed out in many A'gon threads.
That switch is an nice thing to know about. My old Bryston amps had that switch in their amps.
Thanks for the sharing of knowledge. |
Ear-Yoshino 868 (reviewed in Positive Feedback and Enjoy The Music) and 912 (review by Art Dudley in Stereophile).
Missed this post. Thanks, will look into it. |
The Makua, Ayre, and W4S preamps that have been suggested should be ok in that respect. Not sure about the EAR.
Thanks all for these great suggestions, it would have taken me a while to find them. I am actually aware of the suggested preamps, and I must have heard the W4S during a show demo, but did not know they had dual outputs. It was something that I never was looking into until this recent need. Now I have some research to do while I work on my job. @almarg Thanks for the math. Do not really understand but I will take your word for the suggestion. |
@willgolf I am working with a dealer on the Makua so I plan on getting it from him if I go that way, not at MRSP as I listed but something with a discount. There is a unit available today on A’gon from Australia for $10K but I started with the dealer so I will continue to do so.
Did you use the Lumin A1 as the DAC with the Makua?
Are you using the Lumin X1 directly to an amp? I do not mind doing that myself and buying a $2.5K Benchmark preamp for my analog sources. That is if the direct to amp Lumin X1 is not compromised, especially at low volumes.
I should add that I am really interested in doing my streaming from a fibre optical network such as supported in the Lumin X1. It would only cost me about $300 to buy the network gear to do this. I also have a lifetime subscription to ROON so I will stick with that. Roon is actually becoming pretty amazing with the latest release. |
I just spent some time reading the reviews of the W4S preamp. They make it seem like a slightly noisier version of the Benchmark LA4, but with the specs I am looking for with dual output XLR. Both peamps are being described as "straight wire with gain".
When I first saw photos of W4S a long time ago I had the impression it could not be the ultimate in sound quality. Then a few years ago I heard W4S demo their then new mono blocks with a full W4S stack and KEF Reference 1 speakers. I was really impressed by the sound and how much I was into the music. They were playing some Pink Floyd in a nice hotel room. The sound of their gear was was completely deceiving to me given my impression of the looks (though looks do not matter if the sound is excellent).
The W4S 10 year anniversary DAC should also be something I should consider if I persue the W4S preamp. The ESS Sabre DAC’s maybe a good choice with the softer sounding Yamaha NS 5000 over the Denafrips (Lumin X1 is also Sabre).
I am really excited about the pre-amps listed in this thread. It is only recently that I came to understand what those dual XLR outputs can do. It took me about a year of figuring things out to get me to this point. I am lucky I was broke last year and could not afford to prematurely buy the wrong gear.
I should add that I am looking for the XLR outputs of the preamp to support the Balanced XLR AES48 standard. I have confirmed with Benchmark and Mola Mola that their units do support it. This is important to me because I plan on putting everything, except the amps, far away from the speakers. I may need something like 25 feet of XLR to reach the amps. I do not indent to spend a lot of $$ on the XLR’s if the AES48 standard is supported.
Now off to read about the other preamps listed above. |
@atmasphere You are my AES48 hero (save me $$$) and I have been including that feature as an essential requirement when I look into the preamp - amp interface. With my limited experience with Benchmark gear, which support AES48, I tend to agree with your statements about the XLR interconnects. I just did not understand why my Benchmark observations were that way until you explained AES48 in some other threads.
I am not sure if a tube preamp would work well with the Yamaha NS 5000 speaker. I am also not sure if I would get the benefit of super low noise floor of the Benchmark AHB2 with a tube preamp. The Yamaha system will already be a softer sound with the Luxman and the KEF LS50 will be very detailed with the Benchmark. This is my intention to have 2 flavors of sound in my room. I will read up on these 2 atmasphere preamp units though.
So far the W4S preamp jumps at me as being in the same vein as the Benchmark and Mola Mola Makua in design, "straight wire with gain". Though the W4S is supposed to only add gain after pot 64 in the volume control, not sure what that means. I have posted a question to W4S on Facebook about support for AES48. If they respond I will post the answer here. |
I have not heard the Ayre but I know people consider the 20 reference caliber. I will keep any eye out for a used unit since I have not bothered a dealer with an audition for that one. I have no problem buying used but not if I demo the same gear at a dealer.
You were correct in your assumption about tubes for the reasons I mentioned above and also the heat factor in my corner room that gets hot in the summer. I spend 8 hours+ a day working and listening to tunes in there. So cooler temp equipment is important. I also have 7 thin computer screens in this room too and they give off heat right into my face. Only 2 silent computers though.
Anyways, the list of preamps that is compiled here is really awesome.
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@don I used to own the BAT VK 42-SE preamp. I do not recall now if it had dual XLR’s but it was pretty good. A little soft on the top but a relaxing sound, at least compared to the Bryston BP25 preamp it replaced.
I bought that one used without hearing it first. It turned out to be the best gear I had at that time. |
@zprr The place where I may buy the NS 5000 is also a dealer for Simaudio. Something to consider. I may also consider buying the NS 5000 online to have a 60 day home trial. I am almost 100% certain that a CONVOLUTION file for DSP running on ROON will solve any room issues with this rather big "bookshelf" speaker. There is company/guy up in Canada who can create these DSP files given some room measurements and other info. I am reading his book to see if I can do it myself.
I thought the Simaudio 850A preamp and second from top amp were great with the Paradigm Persona 5F I auditioned at the NS 5000 store. |
@gdnrbob
To my mind, you wouldn't be unhappy with either the Ayre or Atmasphere preamps, both provide super clean sound. I would have to have my head in a vice for hours to find a negative thing to say about either.
That is the sound I am gravitated towards. I seem to like a lot of variation of sound but clean sound (not colored) seems to be what I like the best. In reality I can enjoy a transistor radio if the tunes are good. |
Man I cannot believe I did not remember the Luxman c900u has this dual output XLR feature. I demoed this preamp 2 times too. Getting old. Selects an output mode from the following 3 kinds: unbalanced output, balanced output, and bi-amplifier output
Every time this switch is pressed, the output changes as→→follows: UNBAL
BAL
BI-AMP
• Unbalanced output (UNBAL)
Sound comes out from LINE-1 and LINE-2.
• Balanced output (BAL)
Sound comes out from BAL LINE-1 and BAL LINE-2.
• Bi-amplifier output (BI-AMP)
Sound comes out from LINE-1 and LINE-2.
LINE-1 (Lch): LOW (Lch)LINE-1 (Rch): LOW (Rch)
LINE-2 (Lch): HIGH (Lch)LINE-2 (Rch): HIGH (Rch)
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Questions to W4S: 1. Does the STP-SE preamp support the Balanced XLR AES48 Standard for the 2 XLR outputs? 2. Can I hook up 2 amps to the preamp. I want to use a Benchmark AHB2 amp and a Luxman m900u amp connected to 2 different speaker sets. I would turn one of the amps OFF when using the speakers connected to the powered up amp. 3. The balanced input impedance of your Benchmark amp is 50K; the balanced input impedance of the Luxman amp is 34K. Assuming those numbers apply when each amp is powered down their combined impedance is (50 x 34)/(50 + 34) = 20K Answers from W4S: Thank you for your email and interest.
1) yes, everything is star grounded.
2) yes, this will work well assuming the amps dont short the signal when off.
3) the input impedance of the amps are combined when on or off and as long as the paralled value is higher than 15k, there will be no problem.
Thank you and talk to you soon,
EJ Sarmento
BTW - that Luxman c900u does not support AES48. I forgot that I asked the engineers. The W4S is what I will do a home trial with first. I many even try their w4S Anniversay DAC though the Lumin X1 DAC is something I wanted to try with a preamp that does not have an internal DAC. In about 10 days I see where the money to do this comes from. |
@atmasphere What you wrote is very interesting. I would like to have a phone conversation with you when I have the cash to buy. I am inclined to get a SS preamp, but I some flexibility in this choice, maybe get both to have some great combinations in the pairings. I need to talk to understand a few things.
Getting very close to buying time.
Thanks guys and gals who posted suggestions on this thread. I have more than enough options now.
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@jackd Yes the full loaded version. I think it is just a little under $4k. |
I had some big plans with this thread's initial question.
I ended up with 2 2-channel systems and 2 headphone systems and did not need the dual XLR outputs from a single preamp. I decided to use headphones in the same room as my big speakers. So no need to have 2 speakers sets in this room and 2 XLR outputs from a single preamp.
I used the Benchmark HPA4 preamp for the big 2 channel system.
The second 2 channel system in another floor is setup with a Krell K-300i integrated.
The CODA CSiB integrated is used on headphone system 1.
The Topping A90 headphone amp for headphone system 2 (along with the Benchmark HPA4).
This is a lot cheaper than I initially planned and sounds great. |
I did not get the Topping D90 DAC I got the Topping A90 headphone amp and the Matrix Audio Mini-i 3 Pro DAC which is in the same price range as the Topping D90 DAC. It would have made sense to go Topping D90 and A90 stack but my research indicated that the Matrix would be a better choice with respect to much better features and equivalent sound.
I listen to this combo when I go to sleep and it is amazing with my slightly warm sounding Meze Empy headphones. |
