2. amps-preamps
  3. 154570-139155

Preamp w/DAC (or Integrated w/DAC) vs. Outboard/External DAC? (Again! Forgive me!)

Please forgive this question if you think it's been answered before. I really have been researching it and am still confused.
Regarding prospective purchases of preamp or integrated amp —total budget about $3-4k.
I am still trying to decide a basic question of tubes vs. solid state.
But, I am *also* stymied by the "external vs. internal DAC" issue. This is the question I'm raising now.
  • Some say "you must get an external DAC because things change so much."
  • Others say, "get an internal DAC, you'll be fine and then can do a pre-out later, if DAC's change."
  • An audiophile friend says, "Even having an internal DAC that you bypass still adds noise, so keep it separate for that reason, too." (He recommends audio-gd DACs.)
  • Because I'm very interested in PS Audio's StellarGainCell (and it has a built in DAC) and I raised the DAC issue with them — I asked, basically, "Why shouldn't I worry about the obsolescence of the DAC in the GainCell Preamp?"
  • PS Audio replied: "It’s true that DAC technology has changed a lot in the last decade and obsolescence has been an issue as the industry has shifted towards streaming….The Gain Cell is compatible with all of the popular formats, like DSD and high rate PCM, so obsolescence is unlikely for what we can foresee. All of the streaming services we’re seeing, even new ones like Qobuz, are doing 24/192 and the Gain Cell is more than capable to handle all of that. While we can’t predict the future, we’re not seeing anything on the horizon that we expect to change this. We haven’t heard of anything that would be game changing and drastically alter this product’s relevance as the Gain Cell can process the file types and sizes we’re seeing with streaming which is increasing in popularity….We’re proud of the design of the Gain Cell’s preamp section, and I think its performance both in the DAC section and the preamp section will have a lot of longevity for years to come."
Any opinions about the general issue?
Any suggested $$ breakdowns for how to spend $3-$4k — how much for preamp, amp, dac, proportionately?
This is a system-building in progress. I'm spending reasonable, similar amounts on other elements but not gobs of money -- e.g. I will not have $5k speakers or a $2k streamer, etc. So if you think I'm over-worrying this question *given my total system's modest profile* you can just tell me straight, "Dude, don't bother worrying about this question. Your system isn't worth it." I'll appreciate that candor, too.

128x128hilde45

Showing 4 responses by rego

rego
378 posts
 
Hey hilde45, the Technics Grand Series is where I landed with a sense of wonder still intact.
Two somewhat different integrateds in the Grand Series lineup: SU-G30 / Integrated Streamer and Su-G700 / SL-G700 can be added for Streaming capability.
Each in the $4000-$5000 Range new. The SB-G90 Loudspeaker are around $4000 also. I would have to check into the price on the SL-G700.
The Streamers do a-lot MQA included.
PS Audio uses PWM also.
Even a demo at a retailer was not enough for me to realize just how good this gear is.
Compared to a Freya / Gungnir MB / Vidar it is a stark difference.
Quiet / Detail / Holographic / Very Fast with great Tone as well.
Grand Series components do come up on Audiogon occasionally.

rego
378 posts
 
PWM = Pulse Width Modulation.
PWM in general is a way of handling a Digital Signal.
Class D Amps can process a signal in the digital domain for all parameters.
In an amplifier Power Chips are Highly Efficient compared to Class A / AB.
So different amplification Topology.
McGowan ( PS Audio ) explains like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj6h4qYxkCc
Also refer to Technics website:
https://www.technics.com/us/products/grand-class/stereo-integrated-amplifier-su-g700.html
rego
378 posts
 
@hilde45, About my post how PWM is utilized with regard to amplification.
My input is intended to address the statement:
"I am still trying to decide a basic question of tubes vs. solid state. "
PS Audio as well as Technics have developed / use Hybrid Amplification
solutions.
Back to the question of DACs.
Manufacturers develop products in different ways!
The Stellar GC Preamplifier combines Pre-Amp function with DAC function.
Further the Stellar GC Pre features a full range of Digital and Analog inputs. With Ballanced and SE Analog Output.
Now do you want to play High-Rez, 16/44.1, MP3 files ... if you only want to play MP3 files you do not need a Stellar Pre.
A Pre Box DS2 (for example) similarly is an Integrated Pre-Amp / DAC and Headphone Amplifier " Digital micro preamplifier with MQA and DSD512" without balanced connections for $399.
The Pre Box DS2 sounds 'very good' paired with QA Sixty Watt Monoblocks and brand X Speakers.
If you like Buchardt my suggestion would be model S400 because the S400 uses a Wave Guide to better integrate the high range frequencies.
And the S500 would probably integrate into a 'room' even better than the S400.
No I have not had an opportunity to listen to any of any in the Buchardt 
lineup ...

rego
378 posts
 
@hilde, Crescendo Fine Audio in Wheatridge, Co for Elac and PS Audio.
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