Preamp recommendations for a Butler TBD2250?

That might be. I picked up the butler and it had no problem being driven by the modwright. It is a very unique sounding amp. Many characteristics of both tube and solid state. Very powerful. In a modest package.

Hmmm...at the time of my post the Butler site listed the input sensitivity specs I quoted. If the current specs are correct, then a 15db gain preamp should be adequate, unless your sources are lower-than-average output. Certainly there would be a big difference in preamp/amp gain relationships between a given preamp into 1v sensitivity and another into 2v sensitivity. Another thing to consider is the Butler's solid-state-like input impedance of 47kOhm, unlike many tube amps which are maybe 10X that.

Phil

To correct a mis-stated spec, the sensitivity on the Butler is not 3 volts @ 250 watts and it is not 2 volts @ 150 watts, it is 2 volts @ 250 watts. This has been taken directly from the web page of the TBD-2250 and called and confirmed with the designer. I currently have a modwright 9.0 and a rogue audio zeus amp. I am seriously considering picking up the butler because of the technology and no heat(not that the rogue has a lot of heat) No changing tubes and no hazard to my small children. I talked to the designer and to modwright and the amps have been used at the shows together with great results. The zeus has a sesitivity of 225 watts @ 1 volt. With the modwright there is almost too much gain. with very little fine adjustment at low volumes. I love the Zeus but I might just give the Butler a try.

Will do, Mihilli.

I'm rather excited about getting this Butler amp! It will be interesting to see how it matches up with the BAT VK-3ix, my Wharfedale Opus 2 and the various CD Players I have.

I use the JR Synergy IIi and that combo works very well.

Hmmm, don't recall ever saying it was a quality issue Phil, I think the Modwright is a damn good linestage. What I DID say was that I didn't feel like it was a good match for the Butler. And I stand by that.

But thanks anyway for your, as always, insiteful comments, I didn't realise the input sensitivity on the Butler was so low.

And yes, I would like to hear how you get on with the Bat VK Tjpj, thanks.

I'm going to be purchasing the TBD 2250 over the next 2-3 weeks and will match it up with the BAT VK-3ix and will give it a spin on my old BAT VK-3i, also.

It looks like from talking to one of the guys at BAT that the VK-3i and the VK-3ix will both drive the TBD 2250 very well.

If anyone is interested, I'll check back in with findings , after taking some time to listen.

The Butler 2250 is rated at 250/250 watts output into 8 ohms, but the input sensitiviy on Butler's web site also is listed at 2V in yielding only 150 watts/channel out into 8 ohms. This is a relatively low voltage gain power amp and will require more gain than most linestages today have, to drive it to full power. This may be why some people find the sound of a Modwright pre "too polite" with the Butler amp. It looks like it requires well over 3V in to be driven to full power out.

So you need a preamp with a lot of gain. The Audiopax Model 5 has 12db and 23db gain options. The outstanding Melody 1688 preamp has 26db of gain. If you can find a Cary SLP50B, it is rated at 20db gain. The Modwright 9.0 maxes at 15 db gain and may not be enough to drive the Butler, depending on the output of your sources. You will certainly NOT be happy with a Placette passive or a TVC like Sonic Euphoria, unless your source has lots of drive and voltage.

BTW, I face the same issue with my Audiopax 88 power amps, which have only 18db of voltage gain. It's not a quality issue. But some of these innovative new architecture tube amps have very modest gain in the input sections. Of the preamps you mentioned, the Blueberry Extreme, at 20db gain, looks like a good place to start.

Phil

I currently own the Butler 2250 and the Modwright 9.0

Not a good match in my estimation. I'm now using the Modwright with an Audiosector Patek which has great synergy.

Don't panic, the Butler is a beautiful amp, I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy it but I think a better match is either a SS preamp or a passive pre. With a tube preamp I just find the presentation to be a bit too "polite" if ya know what I mean.

I'm using a Tact 2.0S. It does normal preamp functions and room correction. I have a DAC card installed too. Works great with the 2250's - I have 2 running in Mono. I had the Tact fully modified by Aberdeen components - that made it much better!! Very good synergy between the 3 ;)