Preamp for mc275le. Need advice, please

I'll again make my point. Dacs today, note I am saying today, sound very nice on the whole and extremely nice in specific circumstances. The C50 and the C2500 BOTH come with a decent dac, built in, for basically no extra charge. Now then, lets say 5 years from now, you can always add a new external dac if you believe the additional sound quality is evident to your ears. The internal dacs on todays Macs are actually pretty decent and I've had some pretty good ones come through my system through the years. The Macs are not bleeding edge mind you but I find the one in my Mac very nice and I look at is as a nice casual listening dac, especially when you think about always having a reasonable sounding dac with an excellent power supply/output stage implementation.

All due respect but the c2200 and its depreciation curve has little to do with the dac implementation of the c50 or the c2500. I've had a c2200, it was a great pre. The c2300 was better, quieter and had a much better phono stage. The c2500 is better still with a free dac. People act like dacs introduced tomorrow will be revolutionary when compared to dacs today. While change is inevitable and ususally for the better, it is not always so clear cut as some expouse. I heard a 20 plus year old Levinson 30.6 dac recently that was still amazing. Horses for courses. For many, a reasonably priced dac today may be all they ever need and Mac waited to integrate one until the addition of a reasonably priced built in dac met their standards for inclusion. Are they the best Mac is capable of producing? Of course not. They build other products to fill that need.

Please do your research and listen for yourself. The C50 and the C2500 I believe have different dacs and different implementations so check for yourself.

Ghasley, I don't think I disagreed with your point, as I stated in my previous post about an older DAC sounding extremely good, and yes, it was 20 years old. I do think it is quite amusing that you say, "built in, for basically no extra charge" and "with a free dac." I just can't see McIntosh saying forget about those parts and labor when determining the price of a product, although it is probably a small percentage compared to the unit's full price.

The DAC in the C50 and C2500 are the same, verified by an email response I received from McIntosh tech support.

D123phy, there were some problems with early C50's, however software upgrades solved the problem. Also, in my brief research, it appears the C2500 is an overall better sounding preamp than the C50.

I upgraded my Rotel 1582MkII power amp and got an MC275. Paired with a Rotel RC-1550 it swept me off my feet, literally. The tubes sound amazing! Then I wanted the ultimate warmth and decided to get a C2500. Well, it's easy these days, so I got it yesterday. Paired MC275 with C2500 and it's a huge miss. The sound of Rotel was much better. The price difference doesn't really mean that the sound will be $5K better. I guess, the sound is warm, but it's far from clear and detailed. Probably, audiophiles here will scorn me, but I'm going to give that C2500 another week or two and then I'll take it back to the store and get another Rotel. I was too quick to put it on eBay and it was sold overnight literally. I wish I had bought that C2500 from my local Best Buy so I could have returned it for a full refund without paying a restocking fee. I wish I hadn't sold my Rotel preamp. I'm at a difficult junction now, but my Bose car stereo now sounds better than that C2500 as ridiculous as this statement sounds, but it's true.

The obvious is of course a Mc preamp, but I've always been fond of ARC preamps and Mc amps. The new ARC SP20 sounds very good. But, you would need an external DAC or network music player - assuming you want digital and not just a CD player. The ARC SP20 does have a nice built in phonostage too.....but so does the C50/C2500. I just think Mc preamps are just "ok" - and I've owned the C1000C/T/P, C500 and C2500 among others. I just always preferred ARC preamps with my Mc amps. YMMV.

Godunovs,

We've been on a similar path! I used to have a Rotel pre and a Rotel RB1080. I upgraded my speakers and they were revealing enough to show the weaknesses in the 1080 I had not noticed until then. I bought a MC275, and was thrilled. I drove it with my Rotel pre for a while and did my research for a new pre. McIntosh preamps are nice sounding but to me their highest point is their ergonomics: really nice bells and whistles, but they do come at a cost. I ended up buying a Lamm LL2 pre, which has no bells at all (no remote, two volume attenuators...) but sound is supreme. A lot better than my Rotel pre - and I mean a lot! Then sound further improved with upgraded tubes both in the 275 and LL2.

So don't knock out all higher end or tubed preamps because you didn't like one. Maybe it's the tube sound in the preamp you don't like? A good solid state preamp should sound a lot better than the Rotel (reasonably so, given the price difference).

Now if your statement about the car stereo sounding better is really true, I would have the C2500 checked out. It might be faulty...