Slipknot1
With my Chenin, the tube rolling has been pretty limited. I tried swapping out the stock 6922's with Amperex NOS only to be disappointed with the results. I was very pleased however, with replacing the stock 6SN7's with NOS RCA Grey Glass 6SN7. Overall, I have to agree with Slowhand. I think Mick knows what he is doing in his choice of tubes when he ships a preamp. Who am I to argue? I too enjoy my Chenin with the RCA VT-231 Grey glass. The Raytheons VT-231 was also superb in my application. In fact, I now have 3 pairs of Raytheons in my stash so as not to missed the ride if you know what I mean. As for the phono, as I posted a long long time ago and repeatedly, the 6C4 is the money tube for me. If you have not tried it already, I recommend the Tungsol 6C4 and the Raytheon 6C4. The Tungsol have warmer mids (like the RCA's which I know you are using), a very balance top and solid bottom. The Raytheons have a better top end but less "warmer" on the mids and it also has a little more "kick" on the bass than the Tungsols. After trying these tubes, I can now say, that the Mullard M8080(which I thought the best tubes for me in this position) was inferior to both. Lisbon, List your tubes on the Chardonnay if you have not change them already. Also, what about replacing the input cables from preamp to amp? Have you tried having the pre and the amp plug into a common outlet(local ground)? Just a thought! greetings |
Finally! Damn, I waited so long for someone to post a message like this. The NOS tubes IMO does not "really" improve the sound of the preamp, it changes it and since you spend so much $$ for the tube, it must be good right? Here's my post dated 7/7/05. You are into something here. Although the Mullards are great in my Chenin (Metal GZ34), you have to remember that when Mick listened to the preamp, especially the phono, the parameters were adjusted with the conventional tubes in service.
For example, the right resistance to properly biased the JFET's etc. If you open the preamp, you will see that there are rheostat's (blue) on some junctions that their primary fuction was to "tweaked" or "optimized" a certain parameter(s) (i.e. voltage or current)to voiced out the preamp.
...just a thought... I TOLD YOU SOOOOOOO!!!!! |
Hello Simon,
I am using a Denon 103R (0.25mV). My Chenin was set to Low gain. The phono section currently have the Mullard M8080 and Siemens 6922. I have plenty of gain! The phono gain knobs(pair) are just 1/3 setting and I can get 89 to 90 dB SPL with the linestage volume control to almost half. That is a lot! I have no tube rush or hum. I can put the phono knobs at max (both) and linestage max and cannot hear the hiss (all tubes does you are right) at about 4 feet away from a 90-91 dB sensitivity midrange driver actively driven of my Orions. If I placed my ear next to the speakers, yes there's some tube rush but no hum. That's it.
I think, its either you have a very noisy phono tubes or the FET input is out of whack. Just my opinion of course.
Goodluck |
Well, I have about 60 hours on my Chardonnay now, and a couple nights ago it started sounding SUPER dynamic, real edgegy and hard.
I played with the gain controls for a while but they didn't help.
So I just turn it off and when to bed. I didn't want to start rolling tubes yet, but I suspected microphonics.
I am not sure why it would have just started after 60 hours when they should be getting better, not worse.
Anyway the next night I decided to roll the 6sn7, so I replaced the stock ones with a pair of RCA I had been using in my previous preamp, a AE3 DJH.
Well that did it, they tamed it dowm nicely, no more edgey runaway dynamics. Everything just smooth out and nice.
Now I cann't wait to roll the other tubes. I have some Golden Dragon Kt66 laying around I will try.
I know they may not be worth the effort but what the hell, they cann't be worse. Can they!!
Allanblissett (Answers) Since you are on it, maybe you want to try the Sovtek KT-66 as regulators. I tried the Genalex Gold Lion(thin sound), the regular GEC KT66 dark and clear glass(clear but bass is bloated), the 6F6G Sylvania (great bass, so and so mids), Tungsol 5881 (dark overall, big bass, not great in detail which made horn sound rounded at the ends), RCA 6L6GC (balance overall but everything sounds mellow), but the Sovtek that Mick suggested seems to sound right to me. Although it took about 50 hours for the tube to settle. One more thing, I used to have a little hiss on both channels with all the other regulators I was using. With the Sovtek, the hiss on both channel are now gone! I do not know why but I have 4 pairs of original Tungsol 5881 that I paid big $$$$$ for and the GEC tubes I bought from Europe which I already sold and all of these plus other regulators for some reason makes hiss but not the Sovtek. Weird, but thats my story in my system only of course. |
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I have had my Syrah for almost two years now and have had no problems with it except for an intial problem with the fuse in the power supply. Mick told me to get a larger fuse and that solved the problem You also need to get a moving coil cartridge. My moving magnet sounded unlistenable with it. Mick recommended the Denon DL 103 for $200.00 and it sounds unbelievably good. Remember, the phono preamp has a 2.5 mV input ceiling. Mick told me that for higher output cart(>2.5mV) such as an MM, you can try it and see for yourself what happens but he does not recommend it. It is possible that your MM cart was saturating the input signal resulting to "un-listenable" sound as you put it. YMMV |
Just finished an extended listening session with the Chenin, and I'm very impressed, although I've only listened to the linestage so far. Very tight bass, lush mids, and extended highs. I wasn't expecting better bass from a tube preamp, but I certainly did get it! I'm hearing things I haven't heard before in recordings, such as musicians breathing! All this using a computer power cord attached to a zip cord extension while I wait for the Belden cable and Wattgate ends to arrive from Parts Express. Should only get better!
I'm running modified Flying Mole class D monoblocks, a Sony CD player, and Zu Druid speakers. Ait, Yes, for some reason, the Supratek sounds good with a PWM amp! I have the ICE H2O before and my Chenin drives it pretty good. Congratulations, but a warning. If you are planning to roll tubes, read the tubes tread very carefully. Better yet, contact owners Stiltskin, Slipknot1, and Fiddler. Ask them about their experiences with NOS 6SN7 tubes because that pair of tubes will break your bank before you can say WTF! |
My only disappointment is the amount of Âsweetness in the midrange, would like some more of that. Three questions for my Supratek bretheren;
1) Any NOS tubes thatÂd exchange some bass response for more midrange sweetness?
2) what would be an appropriate level of turntable for this phonostage, I was thinking MMF7 or something in that strata  can I go for a less table like the MMF5 or would going up the food chain be the hot ticket?
3) the power supply tube is only an inch from the next shelf and the bottome of the shelf feels very warm to the touch. The rack is open on all sides. Cause for concern ? 1.) Sylvania VT231 have a sweet midrange and less bass punch as well as RCA VT231 in my system. The EH 6SN7 though sounds wonderful as well and does not command the outrageous NOS tube prices. 2.) I would recommend a Teres table. Also, a Denon 103R while you are at it with a high mass arm. 3.) Although it will take an enormous amount of heat from the tubes to burn your shelf even at an inch away which is impossible to achieve with the 5AR4/5Y3 type tube, peace of mind is the thing that really matters here in the long run. cheers |
Supra upper mids/lower treb? Are people always working on that part? Ken Rad black glass 6SN7's? Hmmmm....Has anyone listened to how Kondo deals w/ upper mids/lower treb while still maintaining dynamics? Not me!!!! IMO, this is too much to ask solely from the preamp. The Supratek is not a magic tool. It is a very good preamp but needs to be mated, to maintain synergy, with good components too. The preamp is now telling you the truth about the systems shortcomings base on your preference and you have to single it out as the culprit? Not wise IMHO! For the record, I too was dragged to "tube rolling" here regarding how much improvement you can benefit from it. In fact, I fired some of my recommendations as well while I am at it. But in all honesty, as I mentioned before trying to report about how good the preamp really is without canging anything but just waiting patiently for it to settle, the stock tubes that Mick shipped are the tubes where the preamp is calibrated. Granted that not two people are alike, it might be wise to let the thing run for a while before constantly buying and replacing the tubes to tailor the sound. So far, the only tubes that I replaced that I am succesful are the two 6C4 tubes in my Chenin. Been there, done that, never again! FWIW, did you guys noticed long time Supratek owners in the last 3 months (myself included)un-loading here at Audiogon NOS tubes they accumulated and found out they do not need? My point is, some of us got so carried away from recommendations of such tubes and when the dust settled found ourselves in full circle journey by accident. That is, putting back all the stock tubes shipped with the unit and was shocked that the preamp sounds better with them than the costly NOS tubes. Of course, YMMV and I am just reporting my experience. cheers |
Hi John,
Check your manual! It outlines the tube for the phono section. My Chenin have the 6922 and 6C4 tubes for the phono.
The linestage tubes are the 6SN7's (or liestage output tubes). The 5881/6L6 are the regulators. The 5AR4 is the rectifier.
The way I understand it, what the 5AR4 does is to convert the AC voltage (from the wall) to DC voltage to provide the rail voltages needed (B+, B-) by the preamp base on the design criterion. The regulators as the name implies regulates the voltage level so that any sag of the rectified voltage will not produce a ripple on the DC voltage affecting the performance (bias etc. ) of the tubes.
regards |
For the record, I too was dragged to "tube rolling" here regarding how much improvement you can benefit from it. In fact, I fired some of my recommendations as well while I am at it. But in all honesty, as I mentioned before trying to report about how good the preamp really is without canging anything but just waiting patiently for it to settle, the stock tubes that Mick shipped are the tubes where the preamp is calibrated. Granted that not two people are alike, it might be wise to let the thing run for a while before constantly buying and replacing the tubes to tailor the sound. So far, the only tubes that I replaced that I am succesful are the two 6C4 tubes in my Chenin Ooops! Correction! I forgot to add the Sovtek KT66 works wonders for me in the preamp also. It's been a long time since I worry about the tubes on my Chenin. So I thought I still have the Sovtek regulators in there. Stiltskin, glad to hear that you like the tubes. Regards |
Me,me,me! how does the phono preamp in the Chenin compare to a Wright phono preamp? i have the wright and am very fond of it. has anyone compared the two? I had the Wright WPP100C (see my sytem pics). It was "tubed" with Mullard 6ER5 and Telefunken 12AU7 and/or RCA 6ER5 and RCA 5814 Black plates when I was using them. It is a good phono preamp but it was noisy when the pots were about 1/2 position of the total gain. I have tried many tube combos on the 12AU and 6ER5 positions but the one I posted above was the combo or combos plus a Tungsol 6X4 where tube rush was at minimum. Nevertheless, it is a good preamp whose performance is above its price point IMHO. Compared to the Chenin phono section, my Wright phono pre was clearly inferior in terms of dynamics, quietness, and focus. Eliminating another set of IC's and SUT's maybe contributed to the outcome but the circuit design and the sound of the phono section of the Chenin, after two year ownership and counting, is always very good to my ears. There's one caveat, however, that is you can only use an MC cart with output not higher than 2.5 mV. Who cares right? For the life of me, I have never owned an MC cart with an output higher than 0.8 mV! I tried a Denon (0.25 mV)with a 1:18 transformer to the input of the Chenin's phono (that is 4.5 mV output!) and it works. I cannot detect any "overload" symptoms but my experiment only lasted few LP tracks. It is better to be safe than sorry! With regards to loading, my pre comes with four settings through a slider switch (47k, 1k, 100, 10). But this is not a problem because you can always use a tee to change the load for different values not readily available from the switch settings. BTW, if you check my sytem pics, there are two other phono preamps I have currently (one will be gone in a few weeks cause my friend is buying it from me). I am using the Chenin and I am convince that it is better. It is my "heavy hitter" per se! cheers |
I would like to add from the excellent post of Kgturner above with regards to repairing the Supratek preamps. I read that the unit can be send to Kevin Covi in Upstate NY for repair as well. I hope that someone can confirm this.
Also, when I was having a paranoia regarding the channel imbalance of my preamp about 14 months ago, Mick sent me a schematic (plus phono)with info on the test points and levels to be measured. I measured all the voltages spot on. I found out that it was not the preamp responsible for the problem that I noticed after all and was able to isolate it to the source being use at the time.
rgds |
Amandarae: RE "...you can always use a tee to change the load for different values not readily available from the switch settings..." [47K, 1K, 100, 10]
What's a 'tee' and how does one use it to set the load between the four settings on the slider switch? Oh yeah, its an RCA tee. One end is male, the two remaining are female. What you do is to use one for each channel. The male end goes to the preamp as normal. One of the female end is where the tonearm signal cable (L or R) connects to, the remaining female end is where you solder a resistor so that it will be in parallel to the load setting of the slider switch on the preamp. After that, you can calculate the effective load from the combination. Whew! It is hard to explain it here but once you see a picture, then you will understand the concept right away. Go to AA(under Vinyl) and type "resistor loading" or such. |
Did you guys consider grounding (hum) with regards to separates? The Supratek is a two box solution so having a separate power supply as the main advantage of "separates" is not really 100% accurate when you compare the Suprateks to an independent phono preamps.
With all due respect, I do not subscribe to the theory of separates is always better. To me, it all depends on how good the circuit design was executed. On my Chenin, I can crank up my volume pot with the gain pot on both channels max in the phono section and can barely hear a sound from my active speakers. With separates, doing the same exercise, will produce humm and hiss when volume pot is at 80% or more, at least in my experience because there is always some imbalance when SUT is being use.
As for tweakers like us having separates, then I understand the desire. But one thing for sure, it also creates paranoias like "Do I have the correct SUT?", "What about the interconnects between the SUT and preamp?" and so on.
Just a thought, the Supratek phono section is like "free" or a steal on the Chenins. In my case, I virtually paid <$500 for the phono section when I bought my preamp as compared to the linestage only version! IMHO, for $500 which was the price difference between linestage only and the full function when I ordered my unit, you will not find an MC phono preamp in the market today that is tube rectified, tube regulated, hybrid (low noise FET) input with tube output that has independent variable gain adjustments for each channel(ala dual-mono) to compensate for using non-matched tube pair(and overall gain balance between L&R channel) and sounds like or close to the Supratek's. I could be wrong but is there one that I might not be aware of? |
Oh, I forgot to add, HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!! |
Grounding Hum!! Never had it, never heard it.
If you had it or heard it, something wasn't right in your system Can you please tell me your set up? What SUT are you using? Cartridge? Phono pre? What is your total gain from phono preamp to linestage? What loading? What table? Just curious, maybe I can copy it. |
Oh sorry, you have the Chardonnay. Well, so much so for discussing the phono section of the Supratek being a steal at <$500 then........ |
Another vote for the Chenin here!
Unless you have a super mega over to the max God smiled on it separate phono preamp already, why would one buy a Chardonnay instead of the Chenin if the only reason is that "you are not into vinyl" yet for a price difference of <$500 always intrigues me?
I have been using the Chenin for almost Three years now. The phono section for low/mid output MC (2.5 mV and below)is amazingly quiet and sounds very-very good. I have some other phono preamps use for MM and coupled with an SUT, it does not have the vivid presentation I can get from the Chenin even on modest MC carts. It will take a lot of system matching before the SUT/MM phono combo approaches what the Chenin phono section delivers in my experience.
Let's paint a scenario here.......
Supratek Chardonnay, Linestage only Price:$2000
Supratek Chenin, Linestage (identical in every way to the Chardonnay), with Phono (Low noise Hybrid FET inputs, with two all tube gain stages, individual gain adjustments per channel with preset (four)impedance loading settings), capable of amplifying cartridge output as low as 0.1 mV without the use of external SUT's. Price: $2400
Both are two box system that are tube rectified (5AR4/GZ34) and tube regulated (5881, KT-66, etc.).
What will you buy? Honestly?
Well $400 is a big chunk of money (for me) but assuming that you use the preamp for a year and then decided to sell it. I believe you can get better deal with the Chenin don't you think? Besides, the price difference comes up to a whopping $1.095 per day for a year between the two. If you use it for two years then its ~$0.55, and in three years...well, you get the picture!
Worried that the phono section will just "eat" tubes when not in use? I suggest to turn the gain pots of the phono section all the way down when not in use and get a set of tubes, the cheapest 6922 and 6c4 tubes you can source, as back up. That should set you back for about $50 max including shipping. These tubes together with the tubes that comes with the preamp should be good for the next, say, 3 1/2 years or so conservatively.
As they say, "you know a good deal if you see one"!
Believe me, this is....IT! |
Kgturner,
Thanks for the write up regarding the Malbecs. Just a thought about your buzzing problem if you think that the efficiency of the speaker made it possible for you to hear the noise floor of the amps, why not connect an attenuator pad (with settings of 3, 6 and 9 dB or fine points in between on the positive leg of the output)with about 10 Watts power rating to be safe and see if it still persist? Since we are not concern about the sound quality at this point but to isolate the problem, the exercise will decrease the efficiency of the speakers as you increase the attenuation and you can monitor the buzzing sound if it gets affected by the change.
regards |
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Is it the cord, or the length of the cord that made the difference?
Don't want to be skeptical here but I want to know if somebody tried a shorter umbilical cord than the stock ones (I believe about 5 feet?) and observed an improvement.
regards |
My pleasure sir! I hope it works for you.
BTW, off topic, I live in Diamond Bar CA (91765). I believe you are in Southern Cal too. North Hollywood?
regards,
Abe |
If it was me having a hum issue, I will find out first if it is electrical or mechanical. Electrical, well, try simple process of elimination. Mechanical, make sure the bolt that hold the toroid in the PSU is tight (can easily seen from the top of hte PSU).
Pardon me but I have a question to ask to those who understand the subject matter well than I can. Bear with me and I dont intend to insult anyone. How can the umbilical cord produce a hum? I thought it carries DC voltages only. Hum if electrical, is AC isn't it? Its an oscillation ain't it? On this regard, another question if you guys do not mind. Why would an umbilical cord make a difference with regards to shielding if it only carries DC? Not to mention that the first stage that the power after rectification (PSU unit) will encouner is the regulator (there is an specific tolerance range where the regulator if working properly will regulate the voltage +/- a certain criterion)on the main preamp box itself so that the length of the cord, if not excessively long, will not degrade/decrease the DC voltages to a significant amount for the application as it encounters environmental interferrence when travelling from the PSU to the main preamp box.
Using a decent power cord from wall to the PSU, I understand that there can be improvements because I am experiencing it. Vibration points, I understand as well and agree that it makes a difference. But a shielded umbilical cord that carries DC improves the preamp performance? In what way and how?
Please, forgive me, but I am not looking for an argument but an explanation only. I want to learn what I am not familiar with (no sarcasm whatsoever!). |
Thanks for the explanations everyone. I am fortunate enough that my Chenin, after making the initial mistake of swapping tubes right away as soon as I received it, only had one small issue since 2004. I have this paranoia about the R channel on the phono a little lower in output than the L channel at identical gain pot settings. I wrote my concern to Mick and he sent me an schematic diagram to measure the voltages and make proper adjustments. After that, it's been working fine (knock on wood as I type this!) so far without hum or hiss for almost three years now.
regards |
Sorlowski,
Fiddler is talking about the output caps(just before it goes to the ouput RCA's). In my Chenin, which maybe same as your unit, it is the Auricap (yellow) with 1uF/450V rating on mine. I have not replaced mine nor planning to replace it. I am happy about my preamp as it is.
First tubes, then umbilical cords, now caps. Soon, we have to rewire the whole preamp from PS to the linestage unit. Nothing wrong with all that I suppose. I was guilty riding the "tube carnival", did not bother about the umbilical cord, but I have a feeling the teflon caps will have a difference in sound and might try it in the future.
I tried balance power on the preamp. I did not like it a bit but your experience can be different.
regards |
To me, it sounds very clean almost "sterile" like. Bass is a mother but seems to be louder than the rest. Again, my comments were from my experienced only. FWIW, my left regulator tube (which was brand new) crap out after a week when I was using balance power. Coincidence, maybe, but it glowed red then turned powder white and scared the daylights out of me. Luckily, it did not damage the preamp so I switched to regular power scheme asap.
regards |
Fiddler,
Thanks for the description regarding your findings replacing the output cap.
I am using teflon caps (Sonicap Platinum) on my phono preamp couplings. For the output, I prefer the oil based cap. Of course, I tried the teflon(1 uF) on the outputs as well. It is excellent but synergy takes into effect.
I will dig my 1 uF Sonicap Platinum in the storage and try it with the Supratek. If the result is to my liking, then I will get the V-cap.
Thanks,
Abe |
Hello Sorlowski,
My Chenin is #238 and it has an Auricap (1uF) at the output for both channels of course. Are you sure you are looking at the output caps? Maybe Mick change it who knows but just want to be sure you are looking at the right caps.
As for the teflon caps, after installing mine (Sonicap Teflon) for two weeks, I conclude that in my system although it produces additional "details" or maybe I am just expecting it to happen, I have to put the Auricap back. I do not know but for me, I noticed something regarding the "weight" of the presentation as in different "ambience" on the recording I am very familiar with. Hard to describe! Maybe it is not for me. Maybe my set up is not on par with "Teflon caps" capability.
BTW, the caps have atleast 400 hours on it since I used it on my SET amp before.
regards,
Abe |
Chardonnay does not have a phono either! That is one of the biggest blunder one can commit in buying a Supratek product is to get the "linestage only". Reason being is the $500 difference, which in the long run pays for itself in terms of retaining the value of the preamp in case you will sell it, for a unit with the same circuit topology on the linestage and equipped with the phono pre is a no brainer! The phono section of the Supratek, as other owners mentioned already, is excellent!
If you are adding a phono to your linestage, the only concern I can think of is make sure the phono preamp you are getting has a well thought off grounding scheme or else "hum city" can occur.
regards |
Am considering a Pro-ject Tube Box II, perhaps only has a holdover till I order a Cortese. Hello, In my opinion, going SS phono pre to the Supratek is nice (I have one: a one box Bugle PSU, Bugle, and Piccolo all from Hagerman Technology). But if push comes to shove, I will opt for a tube design. Having said that, I own a Hagerman Cornet 2 and its synergy to the Supratek is uncanny! You will spend about $600 if you build it yourself from half kits source through Hagerman Technology. For the record, I owned the Hagerman trumpet also. Of course, going Supratek all the way is another great option. But if you decide to go with an outboard one, you have to find out what kind of circuit topology (tubes use etc.) you really like. I can tell you that the phono section on my Supratek (uses 6C4 and 6922 tubes with FET gain stage on the front) sounds different than the 12XX7 base phono preamps I own in all cartridges I tried. Also, for whatever reason, line contact stylus cartridges sound a little better on the Supratek than the other phono preamp I have. Sorry for the rant, I just want to point out that there are several factors that you might want to consider before you commit on buying whatever phono preamp you want to get. BTW, I saw your post at the Asylum. One poster wrote about the Wright WPP100C phono preamp having "someone" preferred the Supratek to it. I am that person! I compared them side by side for months to make sure that I will not make the "honeymoon syndrome" mistake, and in my system and to me, the Supratek phono is much much better. Goodluck! |
Oops correction! On the first paragraph, I was thinking about the Graham Slee from your response at AA. |
I echo what Stiltskin posted here! I think the Chenin's phono section (6922/6C4) is exceptional!
I remember that the phono section of the Chenin was taken from the one which the Cortese had during that time. The Syrah, which the Chenin replaces have a different phono section topology overall. I truly believe that the 6922/6C4 combo that the Chenin preamp has is a magnificent sounding design.
Sometimes I wonder what could be the reason why the Chenins phono design was changed from the original 6922/6C4 combo to a different 6922/XXX topology?
As they say, a great sounding circuit design is only as great to how the individual components react to compliment each other. IMHO, Mick hit something special with the 6922/6C4 combo.
regards,
Abe |
Hello Tvad,
I use the Benz ACE M,like yours, on my Chenin. I found that the phono gain pot setting on mine at 1/3 max for each with the best results loaded at 1000 ohms and with the preamp gain togggle switch at low setting. I found this setting also as the one that gives me the same volume level as from my CD player source.
I am using Amperex 7308 and Tungsol 6100.
regards,
Abe |
Hello Tvad,
I see.
Maybe you want to try to load the Benz to 24 ohms(its internal impedance) using RCA tees on the input and see if you like it. When the cart is loaded with its internal impedance, its output will be halve. So you will have 0.4 mV intead of 0.8 mV at the input to the phono preamp. |
Hello Tvad,
Sorry to hear that it did not work for you. Does the Cortese have a slider switch to choose load settings? Just in case you miss it, when you load the Benz at 24 ohms using the resistor, is the setting on the main preamp set at 47k ohms?
One last thing, when you are using the Wright, are you using a SUT? If so, what was the loading? I asked this because a 100 ohm loading with the Supratek which use Jfet at the input(like a head amp) is different sounding than a 100 ohm load using an SUT. I believe that a 100 ohms load with SUT corresponds to a 1000 ohms load for a head amp to produce the same amount of current to the phono circuit.
If you already tried 1k up to 2k loading and still does not like the sound then, I rest my case.
regards,
Abe |
Hello Tvad, Do you believe it would be worth the investment to buy a Benz Micro Ace Lo (.4 mv)? It depends on the spec of your Cortese. Maybe it is designed for low output(lower than 0.4 mV)carts. Judging from your descripton of the gain being "too hot", it might well be the case. Mick should be able to tell you what it is base on the serial number and I am sure he can recommend what cartridge to use for optimum performance. Better yet, ask him what he used to voice out the phono section of the kind of preamp you have. regards, Abe |
FWIW, in the design of a phono section, that phono section is not 'voiced' although that is a common misconception. If the design is competent, the RIAA curve will be set up to be as close to the theoretical curve as possible, regardless of the actual cartridges. FWIW "voice out" in this case is not the same as for speakers. Chill out! You are taking things too literally! |
Anyone knows the output impedance of the Chardonnay?
Will the Chardonnay go well with a SS amp such as Clayton M-100, Pass Labs X250.5 or McCormack 225? Speakers are Hyperion 938 (90 dB; 6 ohms, 3.8 ohms min). 600 ohms is my bet! |
06-26-07: Amandarae
Hello Sorlowski,
My Chenin is #238 and it has an Auricap (1uF) at the output for both channels of course. Are you sure you are looking at the output caps? Maybe Mick change it who knows but just want to be sure you are looking at the right caps.
As for the teflon caps, after installing mine (Sonicap Teflon) for two weeks, I conclude that in my system although it produces additional "details" or maybe I am just expecting it to happen, I have to put the Auricap back. I do not know but for me, I noticed something regarding the "weight" of the presentation as in different "ambience" on the recording I am very familiar with. Hard to describe! Maybe it is not for me. Maybe my set up is not on par with "Teflon caps" capability.
BTW, the caps have atleast 400 hours on it since I used it on my SET amp before.
regards,
Abe Same here! As I posted way back(see above), the Teflon cap is not my cup of tea. I really want to like it, but when listening to live recordings on vinyl, the ambient noise, venue noise if you will, sounds different to me. Not good! Life is too short not to be honest to yourself.... regards, Abe |
why do other people try to latch onto to this thread to pimp other brands preamps? i'm sure the h-cat, audio horizon, and dodd preamps are excellent in their own right, but this is a supratek discussion thread. Exactly! Don't waste your time, jealousy is very difficult to understand. Honestly, I heard the "battery" powered preamp mentioned by the poster above. This is not new as it has been on the threads at Audio Circle for a long time now. In fact, I recall, it was launched there. All I can say is that to each his own. I have a Chenin for 4 years now! I am happy, and that's what really matters to me. regards, Abe |
Hello Paul,
I will never own a Cortese. Not because of monetary issues but I just do not need one.
I use a Chenin FF preamp with Mullard 8080 and Amperex BB's on the phono section. I have an Altec 604-8G's in OB and 612C Altec cabs, a Fostex MLTL, and a Bozak Rhapsody. They are 100dB, 95 dB, and 92 dB respectively. I am very happy about the synergy and the preamp does not hum even at maximum gain settings (per channel) of the phono and minimum attenuation (full) of the linestage volume.
Before the Chenin, I was using a Wright Sound WPP100C. The Chenin phono is much much better than the Wright! No comparison! Besides, you need very quiet tubes on the WPP100C or you will hear "tube rush" or hiss as you increase the individual gain pots on it. Not a problem with the Chenin. Very quiet!
After that, I went a little "pie tasting" if you will. I had the Pass Xono, Hagerman Trumpet, and a heavily modified Hagerman Cornet II. I do not care for the Pass, The Trumpet was very nice, and i can get very close to the sound of the Trumpet with the Cornet II. So I sold the first two and kept the Cornet.
Like you, I played vinyl almost exclusively. Hell, check my equiptment page and you will see that I am telling the truth. Besides, now that I am on the SET/High Eff camp, hum issue is a no no to take advantage of the speakers high efficiency in order not to mask the small nuances that contributes to the listening experience.
My experiences in the context of my own system only of course!
regards,
Abe |
Abe:
I don't have a scope nor any access to one that I'm aware of. The hum sounds like a typical ground loop hum to me (60 Hz). I can try the shielded cable route, but I'd likely have to build it. What you're saying is connect the ground and shield at one end of the RCA and just the ground at the other end?
Yes, that is correct but lets change the terminologies so as not to get confuse. Lets call what you call "ground" as negative phase. So,on one end, positive phase to + of RCA pin, negative phase connected to the shield together then to the negative of the RCA pin, on the other end negative phase and positive phase connections only on the RCA's. regards, Abe. |
I noticed you have the Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeaker, what's your honest opinion of it? I've been interested to try it out, is it as transparent as the Maggies or is it just cones & domes doing their usual thing? Also, does the OB bass go low enough for you (I notice you have separate subwoofers)... Hello Steve, The Orions are the best speakers I ever heard! No other speakers that I heard off exhibits the same dynamics and bass impact what the Orions (4 x Peerless XLS subwoofers in dipole config)can do. Granted that I only heard a handful of the speakers through my audition but I can assure you, it will kill the Wilsons or VR's with a price tag of $8-10K in terms of dynamics no matter what amps you use for them. Hard to believe eh! I was an electrostatic die hard. Also was an maggie head. Even if you love SS gears, the maggies and the Martin Logans I own are easily bested by the Orions to my ears. I am now exploring the high efficiency/SET domain and to be honest, I really like it. No, I do not have subwoofers! Only for HT where I still have a Velodyne but there is no pics of it in my system page. I now have an Altec 604-8G's in OB. Bass cannot be compared to the Orions of course nor the "dynamic" impact where the Orions really excell. But knowing my limitations with power(SET)and damping factor which needs to be considered also, and the fact that it is single driver open baffle implementation, I cannot complain. I am happy of what I got and I know it can only get better. Besides, the Altec 604's excells on its ability to provide pin point imaging and not to provide very flat response across the freq spectrum. regards, |
Hello Kgturner,
I doubt it if the hum is cause by a tube. Do you have a scope? I ask because you can measure what freq your hum is. 60 hertz and it could be mechanical (tube or transformers vibrating) or filament supply voltage, 120 Hz. and it surely is coming from the rectified voltage of the B+. So which one is it and how much is the amplitude?
One thing to try is to have a shielded cable(shield connected at the preamp side only)from amp to preamp. Try it reverse also and see what happens.
regards,
Abe |
Hello Kgturner,
Hmm....I was hoping that the cable will solve your hum problem. I guess spreading the components out is the next thing to try.
So, when you use a different preamp, you do not have a hum? If yes, then does the preamp and amp have a ground point on the back or chassis where you can hook them together?
Does the Yamamoto use tubes? I am not familiar with them but if it does and tube rectified, have you tried a new tube in the rectifier position?
Goodluck!
regards,
Abe |
Hello, I have the same hum issue with my supratek preamp. when i connect the amp to speaker only (no pre amp involveed) i have no hum. connecting pre to amp and to speakers, hum is audible. I then changed a pair of CHEAP monster ic from pre to amp. th e hum decreased significanly. i disclosed the monster ic i learned that the ic conductors are bigger than the other one. Also the monster is not shielded. It is simply twisted. I then ordered a good shielded ic but this pair does not help at all with the hum. Any recommendation? Thanks alot. As I mentioned above, it is good to know what freq of "hum" you are having. Have you tried a different rectifier? This will test if the hum is 120 Hz or not if by using a different rectifier, the hum decreases. If this is the case, remember that our preamp is transformer coupled at the output, then ripple is high on the supply voltage which means that the filter caps after the rectifier could be bad or not doing its function well. Is the hum present on phono only? Or linestage as well? Phono only, then you can be sure that the grounding scheme of the arm is the problem. Linestage too and there could be several factors. If the ground plane of the preamp(chassis) have a different reference than the ground plane of the amp you are using, hum will be present. Too many ground path and you will have to deal with it also which is commonly known as "ground loop". Have you tried connecting the amp and preamp to the same outlet ground? Have you tried connecting the chassis of the amp to the chassis of the preamp(phono ground lug) using a wire with alligator clip on both ends and hear a difference in hum loudness? Have you tried taking off all the input components to the preamp and then rotating the orientation of the preamp or moving it further away from the amp and hear any difference in hum level? On this case, we are isolating the preamp and testing for any interference. When the preamp gain is set to high, any interference or signal coupling from transformers or power cords close to the preamp will be amplified greatly. My suggestions only of course. FWIW, my Chenin is dead quiet on the phono section and linestage section with regards to hum. All I can hear is tube hiss when the tubes, especially phono, are noisy at maximum (fully clockwise) position of the volume attenuator(min attenuation). I can only hear a hum on mine when I connected an SET amp that I know hums with my 100 dB/1W/meter speakers (Altec). I have use my preamp with Magnepans (not likely to have a hum issue), MLogans, and other speakers as I mentioned above on my other post and have no hum problems (thank God!). Maybe I got lucky. BTW, I use a shielded cable from preamp to amp with the shield connected at the preamp side only. regards, Abe |
Hello Kgturner, abe:
i'm gonna try the cable route first as my yamamoto and cabernet are only connected with cheapie red/white throw away cables. i noticed that when the yamamoto is turned on, the hum starts and the cab only amplifies it due to it's super high gain. if i unplug the rca cables from the yamamoto, the hum is greatly reduced. Ahh, then it is likely that your problem is only the cables. Goodluck! This message is tube driven |
03-07-08: Stiltskin
Abe, You been busy! Hello Stiltskin! Nice to see you here again. Yep! Building a 2A3/45 amp and troubleshooting a 300B amp at the moment. Not to consider the time hunting for some nice horns for my future speaker project. Life is good! regards, Abe |
