Jdub, sounds like that would be an interesting experiment. |
Thomas, I’d have to reread my other threads to figure which recommendations were yours, there have been so many. I can tell you I do appreciate and look into every suggestion you and others on site have kindly provided, while trying to make good decisions. I’ll check out your links. Thanks Thomas,
Mike |
Maritime5, you might not, if you knew the rest of them, or were burning through a good portion of your life savings at a record clip, acquiring this unnecessary, but highly desirable stuff. It’s kind of a benign addiction I suppose. But after this last component and some cables and interconnects I have to cold turkey. It's been fun getting all this new stuff while it's lasted though.
Mike |
Stereo 5, I have been leaning towards the Shunyata Denal 6000S from the reviews I’ve read, but really I don’t know enough to make an informed decision yet. The Niagara 5000 has gotten some good reviews too. I am a little concerned about the Niagara possibly making a humming noise, although Audioquest informed me if there was one, it could be easily remedied. Their one higher model, the Niagara 7000 does make some humming noise due to it’s isolation transformers I read, which the 5000 doesn’t have. No sense paying for noise reduction if the power conditioner puts some back in by humming, while it's removing the rest.
What you’re saying about the Shunyata Hydra providing a very black background is exactly what I’m hoping for. The Magico A3’s I’ve got on back order have a very detailed presentation I’d hate to have muddied by distortion. No loss of power to the amp would be excellent too. Audioquest touts their Niagara’s power reserve capability. Thanks for your reply,
Mike |
Sgordon, I'll look into the Powercell UEF12. I hadn't heard of that model before.
Twoleftears, I'll look up the Isotek Evo Sigmas and Synchros combo as well, and will consider contacting audiotroy if they look interesting and in my price range.
Slaw4, and I'll look into your suggestions too. I didn't know cables could provide surge protection.
Thanks all,
Mike |
Whart, why did you abandon power conditioners? I’m curious. I really don’t have much access to any audiophile products closer than three to five hours away, double that round trip. There’s a chance I could have a local dealer who sells lower end Audioquest cables get the Niagara 5000 for an audition, but that really would be taking advantage as I can get one for less elsewhere by mail order. I think Music Direct does carry both but only at full retail, plus I'd be stuck with the return shipping costs. This will be a one time investment for me, since I’ve no plans to upgrade even when a better product comes out.
Tastyfreeze, If you’ve looked at both the Audioquest and Shunyata and some others, what were your thoughts and preferences among them. I’d like to hear your impressions, if for no other reason than you have an excellent username that bespeaks good taste, which undoubtedly extends to high end audio products. I’ve got until February to make a decision, but I’d just as soon make an informed decision, not dink around with this, and get on to other things. So far I’ve read every review I could find, called manufacturers and retailers, and now I’m trying to get listeners and owners input if possible. So please share your impressions. I’m sure I, and others would certainly find them helpful. Thanks,
Mike
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Inna, I will be obsolete myself in a few years so I really need to get something now. I have no idea how to evaluate the power supply, so I am willing to accept a well reviewed panacea of a noise conditioner.
I’ll look up the Walker Audio motor controller right now. I generally prefer to stay with bigger well known companies so there’s a decent chance they’ll still be around in twenty years for parts or repairs, if I still am. Some of the smaller companies disappear when their owner retires or moves on, then you’re stuck with a $4000 boat anchor. By the way, I did order the VPI power cable you suggested in my other thread just the other day.
I looked up the Walker Audio motor controller and it did read like an excellent product, and better than any like product I’ll ever have. I’m thinking I’d like a more general purpose product though as current budget allows. Thanks again Inna,
Mike |
Yes, I did mean the tonearm cable. I don't know that the power is unstable, we do have a fair amount of outages though, some of very short duration.
Mike
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Browndt, I wish I could afford your more expensive Niagara model, and am understandably jealous. Good to hear your enthusiasm for the 7000. I'm looking forward to the quiet noise free background. What kind of, and wattage, amps are you powering? That power surge capacity of the Audioquest models is a real selling point. How much humming do you get out of the 7000's isolation transformers? Is it noticeable? Thanks for your post.
Mike |
Whart, thanks for replying. I didn't realize it was a fairly new development that power conditioners can fully power amps without current limiting I think there are plenty of people around who've been plugging their amps into the wall, rather than the power conditioner to this day, judging from how frequently that topic comes up.
Both Shunyata, and especially Audioquest , address in their literature they don't limit current to amplifiers. Audioquest advertises their Niagara models have a substantial power reserve for transient peaks, if I'm saying that correctly. It's interesting to know it wasn't always that way.
Inna what kind of device do you use to measure that. I saw something being used on a Shunyata youtube video that played out loud the line distortion, and provided a measurement.
Mike |
Slaw, I figured so, unless you were messing with me. Thanks,
Mike |
I think I’m going to go with the Shunyata Denali 6000S. I found a place to get it for less than retail, and only slightly more than the Audioquest Niagara 5000.
If repairs are ever needed, Shunyata seems like a big enough concern to be around for years to come. It’s less big than Audioquest, but certainly not a boutique operation. Reviews for it are consistently good, as were those I found on the 5000.
I won’t have to worry about the Denali 6000S humming, or dealing with having it modified, so it won’t hum if that problem crops up. Audioquest indicated that a simple modification could be easily be done for their Niagara 5000, if the utilities transformer is not up to snuff and causing that problem. But ten years from now the utilities transformer on the pole behind the house may not be up to snuff any more after routinely electrocuting overly venturesome squirrels two- three times a year. Then what? The Shunyata Denali uses passive technology hopefully obviating that potential issue,
This doen’t make sense, but I also got to thinking the Audioquest Niagara 5000 admittedly is only a poor mans version of their 7000, so its going to be comparatively lacking in some regard from that model. I didn’t get that sense about the Denali 6000S and their higher models. Some said they’re comparable with the Shunyata Triton, and not so much lacking, as sounding a different compared to the Audioquest Niagara 7000,
Stupidly, if I got the Niagara 5000, I’d feel aggravated I couldn’t afford the Niagara 7000, even if the 7000 does have a low hum from it’s isolation transformers. However, if browndt were to send me his wonderful sounding Audioquest Niagara 7000 for Christmas there would be no further sour grapes or jealousy to be mentioned.
So this decision to get the Shunyata is at least partially, but not completely sensible. If it were possible, running an A/B comparison at home would have made this choice less of a crap shoot. But it didn’t sound like from what I read there is all that much difference between the two in any event.
That leaves only an interconnect from my Marantz SA 8005 CD player to the Luxman 507uX Mark II amp yet to be determined, before I’m operational when those Magico A3's finally arrive. Got to run down to Salem and pick up some vibrapods and cones too. I’m going to start constructing new built in shelves for my relocated components tomorrow. Picked up the wood and some simple damping materials for the shelves today.
Thanks again for everyone’s input as I pull into the home stretch on my new system.
Mike |
Easygoing, I wish you the best dealing with your heart issues. I know from the loss of a loved one how difficult that may be. Take good care of yourself and thank you for your advice. I'll be thinking a good thought for you.
Michael |
Audiofool. . Thanks for sharing your experience with all three of those conditioners. I'll read up on the Ansuz power conditioners today. I'm not familiar with them.
Leotis, do you have a link to your old thread. I'd like to read it. If not, I'll find it. I'll look up the Equitech line too. I have heard their products mentioned.
Inna, if it doesn't sound good I'll suck up the shipping and send it back. Appreciate the warning.
The reason I'm concerned about companies remaining viable comes from maintaining my late seventies components for so many years. Sourcing Bang and Olusfen parts or finding knowledgeable service techs has been a bear. Phase Linear preamp repairs were a bit easier to come by as generic caps could be used. Dahlquist parts are still available fortunately.
You're right though, any company can disappear at any time, but to my mind it's hedging your bets to try and buy from the ones most likely to stay in business. I'd rather have a product a little less good, than purchase one from a more esoteric company. I mean, try and find parts for my old Burwen TNE Transient Noise Eliminator if you can. That's been taking up space in my storeroom for three decades. On the other hand you can still get source parts for an old Ford or Chevy, but try the same for an old MG. I've been to that well and I'm not going again if I can possibly avoid it.
Rbyington, I agree with you about the reviews not being able to be relied on exclusively. That's why I'm asking questions here and have read as many other threads on other forums as I could find from actual owners and listeners. Not to mention calling one products designer and techs at the other company, plus consulting dealers to ferret out information. Some will tell you all kinds of drawbacks to products they don't carry, even some they do if you get to know them a little.
I'll read on the PS Power Plant 15 you suggest. That is a PS Audio product I'd assume, but maybe not? The cable business you refer to is appears altogether over-hyped to me too and really hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff in, even doing listening test at dealers. It would be nice to have access to all these products to try out at home, but so it goes.
Mike
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Twoleftears, I read the positive review from Absolute Sound of the Isotek EVO3 Sigmas AC Power Conditioner. I asked Audiotroy, as you suggested, if he might post his opinion on the unit here for all to share. Thanks. I’ll have to find something on their Synchro unit to read although adding that in combination to the Evo3 Sigma would doubtless put my over budget .
Mike |
Biketech, I looked up your Equitech 1.5 RQ model. Sounds interesting I’ll have to do some more research on it. If it was powered by The Force I would have purchased it immediately.
Mike |
lp2cd, thanks for the explanation I have read up on the Furman IT Reference 20i. and will have to revisit the Equitech. I started researching the Equitech the another night but never finished. How much noise or humming does the transformer produce in either of your power conditioners? Noise is the problem I’ve been running up against with the isolation transformer type power conditioners. If I could find a quiet one I’d be much more inclined to go that route.
Mike |
Twoleft ears, yes the proof is in the pudding. Whatever I get it may or may not work or buzz, or do my laundry for me. I’ll hane to find out the old fashioned way and return the item if need be. I know they’ll stick me with the return shipping so I’ll have to make a good a choice as I can right out of the gate.
Lp2cd, sorry your post disappeared. I would have liked to have read it. I’ve had a few of mine go up in smoke too. A number of times Audiogon said my posts had not taken, but there they were when I checked. You never know. But you say both the Audioquest and Shunyata are are silent, so that’s encouraging. I’ve had two reports of the Audioquest Niagara 5000 buzzing, but none of the Shunyata making any noise, which is swaying me in that direction, I’ve a couple more models to research more now though. Thanks anyway for the short version.
Inna, nothing to do with this post, but I am going to get the Audioquest Rockets 88’s speaker cables that Magico recommended. I tied my brain in a knot trying to figure cabling out, and finally figured second guessing Magico on a subject I did not fully comprehend after hours and hours of studying, was a mistake.
I am going to approximate wiring by connecting my 20amp dedicated circuit’s 12awg Romex with a hospital grade 20amp C19 plug (I think that’s the correct number) to plug directly into the power conditioner. The power cord that came with amp will have to do until I get some other non-audio projects completed. Hopefully the power conditioner will clean up the signal so much, fancy power cords from it to the amp, cd player or turntable will be unnecessary. Only the interconnect from the CD player to the amp remains unaccounted for at present.
I am going to get a $4000 or thereabouts power conditioner, so I feel I’ve given my system a good shot at functioning up to it’s capacity. Also I want to feel that I have not cheaped out, which inevitably costs you more in the end. Once I get all my other non-audio projects completed, I may revisit my stereo system for tweaks and a turntable balanced supply device. Thanks again for your help, consideration and ideas.I actually have followed some, and you are responsible for my getting the Luxman amp. If you ever come over you can autograph it for me.
Mike |
Inna I demoed the Magico's with vinyl records only, so I'm fairly confident that analog should be okay. Perhaps the cd player will work even better.
I left out a word in my post above. I am going to use a dedicated Romex line straight to the power conditioner from the service panel, so there will be no power cord to it. It's almost like hard wiring, except I'll put a C19 12AWG 20 amp hospital grade plug on the end of the Romex. We'll see how that works.
I honestly don't understand in what way a power cord could improve the function of a power conditioner. I'm not saying it doesn't, I just don't understand how it might. I do understand how an inferior cord, or zip cord, could degrade the signal from the wall outlet to the power conditioner, but I'm eliminating that cord completely by running the 12AWG Romex straight to the power conditioner, so there should be no signal degradation other than what the hospital grade plug might provide.
Somewhere along the line I'll try an experiment and insert a audiophile quality cord between the Romex and the conditioner and see if there is any improvement, or change, in the sound of the system. And don't worry, I always accept responsibility for whatever decisions I make. I was only trying to throw you a compliment for taking the time to reply to my posts and helping me figure things out.
Mike
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Cleeds I’ll take a look at the NEC. I’ve got an older copy. If not, I’ll use a 20 amp, 12awg hospital grade power cord having the C19 plug. I was thinking of being lazy and doing that anyway.
P.S. I looked it up online. At first glance It appears you have to put the Romex in conduit if it’s exposed. Since that would still be odd with the plug exposed. I’ll go with the 12AWG stranded hospital grade power cord instead. That should be about the same difference.
Now I’ll have to go back and put some conduit over an exposed length of Romex connected to my furnace, which did pass inspection years ago. That’s where I took the idea from. I certainly don’t want any code violations that would give my insurance company an excuse to not pay off a claim if the worst was to happen. Thanks cleeds fot the good advice.
Mike |
Rzado, to be sure I’m not misreading you, you’re meaning the Audioquest Niagara 5000 aren’t you. I think you got a typo in there. I’m interested in how the two compare when you finished demoing both in your system. That’s good information on the Audioquest you’ve provided. Keep us posted. You’ve done a more thorough job wiring than anybody else I’ve run across. Must have been a fair amount of work. I’ll be watching for your next post. Thanks,
Mike |
Knownothing, I’m listening to what you’re saying about low voltage cables picking up field effects from high voltage cables nearby, particularly when in close proximity. I’m trying to understand this. Would " field effects" be the same thing as EMI interference or something in addition as well?
Would using shielded power cables prevent them from emanating field effects? I had thought about a using shielded hospital grade 12AWG, 20 amp power cable to the power conditioner instead of the Romex, due to the possible code violation Cleeds brought to my attention. This would be in addition to audiophile quality shielded interconnects and speaker cabling. I don’t know how well shielding alone limits signal and field interaction. I thought about doing the same with the other power cables plugged into the power conditioner. Maybe the shielding is insufficient to do the job. I simply don’t know, but would like to learn. I was hoping with "clean" power I wouldn’t need to venture beyond simple shielded power cables for any device plugged into the power conditioner. Having read that would be sufficient, was a major prompt to acquire a power conditioner. Maybe it's not true.
I read a long "white paper" on cable design to try and better understand the issues involved, but can’t say I fully understood it without need for further studying on the subject. I wonder if running the power cables inside conduit would be of any benefit in limiting transmission of field effects? As I similarly mentioned in one of my posts my ignorance on the subject is fairly comprehensive. The subject is interesting though.
I did go ahead and purchase a second-hand Shunyata Denali 6000S last night from a dealer at a price I couldn’t pass up, approaching 50% off retail new, so all major components have now been purchased. Completing cable acquisitions comes next. Thanks for your explanations and advice. I found it helpful in trying to understand this complex subject.
Mike
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Appreciate the further explanations, Knownothing. I'm definitely going to need to research this subject more, The simplest thing to figure out will probably the interconnect between my relatively, inexpensive CD player, a Marantz SA8005, and the Luxman 507uX II amplifier. I think what I'll do there is purchase a modest Audioquest interconnect that comes in at 20% of the CD players value. We do have an Audioquest dealer in Roanoke who would let me swap out cables if I liked.
That would simplify that matter. That CD player was purchased before I decided to upgrade my whole system, and it's the only component I would consider upgrading down the road if I acquire more CD's. 90% of my source material is vinyl records.
The power cables I'll definitely need to look into further. I'll keep them as far away from the low voltage cabling as possible as you suggest. I'm going to see if there isn't some simple mechanical means to shield them, starting with the shielded hospital grade 12 amp power cords, maybe conduit. I'll need to look into the other variables the cords are designed to deal with, some of which you mentioned. I'd honestly be horrified if I needed to buy a thousand dollar power cord. But you have to do what's necessary, like it or not. Thanks,
Mike |
Thanks for the input rzado. I'm hoping my recently purchased Shunyata Denali works well with my new system once my back ordered Magico A3's finally arrive in February, hopefully. I'll post my assessment then. Sounds as if it should fit in well as you usually don't read the Magico's have a warm presentation. The Denali may vary somewhat from the Triton you demoed. so I'll just have to wait and see. How do you like your Purepower 3000 relative to the others. I'm unfamiliar with that make and model. I'll have to look it up.
Mike |
