Jones4music, that was good, and illustrates just why audiophiles shouldn’t be allowed out of the house, much less fishing. I added Nordost Odin’s to my want list though.
Glupson, you’re telling me. Since I joined this site I been told of so many things I never heard of, that I’ve got to have, which cost thousands, my head’s spinning. Once I get everything set up in February, hopefully, you’re more than welcome to come down and take a listen. However if my system ends up sounding crappy I’ll warn you ahead of time so you don’t have to make the same mistakes. According to some here if I skimp on cables that will be the case. That’s pushing me to spend good money on cables. I figure I’ve got about a 50-50 chance this might all come together. If I spend a few thousand more it get down to 60-40.
Inna, why would you recommend against purchasing used cables or is it only quite old ones that present concerns? Is there something that goes wrong with them, or do they deteriorate somehow over time? Would some of the used cables offered by The Cable Company fall into that category or do you think they screen junk out? I was thinking of possibly buying used through them if new prices were out of sight. That is, when I finally figure out which to purchase. There is zero chance I know what I’m doing, if there’’s something I should know about buying used.
Sorry I couldn’t remember your Purist Audio Design Neptune’s name, but I have a list of over fifty suggestions now I’m trying to make sense out of and find reviews for. Gets kind of overwhelming. Are you recommending the Neptunes you have only as interconnects, or as speaker cables also?
Mike
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Inna, I’l have to measure the cable length more carefully once I get my built in shelves in for the turntable, CD player and amp done. I’m moving the shelves to the middle of the room to keep these cables to the shortest length possible. I was thinking a little extra cable would be good to be able to move the speaker around a little for optimizing room placement. I could probably do that with inexpensive cables first I suppose, then know exactly how much I’ll need when ordering the good stuff.
I’m not prepared to lose any money on reselling cables, so I have to make a good decision the first time out. With new, I bet I could return them. I don’t know how The Cable Company handles returns with used. You make a good point. I’ll find out their policy. I’ll probably have to listen to a few brands if possible to have a reasonable base for comparison, since my only experience with high end cables is listening to one set of Audioquest cables once. I wasn’t paying much attention to the cable during the Magico A3’s demos although I did ask. I’ll have to check my notes from the demos.
Jimmy, you’re welcome. I'm learning a lot here too.
Mike
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Ieales, I’ll try and find some time today to read and study the Galen articles you provided links too. I’ve been busy on another non-audio project that’s taken up enough time to not be able to get that done.
What do OFC and LCC stand for? I did remember Cu stands for copper. I wish I was an electrical engineer to understand what dielectric and optimized geometry means, but alas am only a mere mortal. I do get the drift of what you’re saying though. I’ve got to listen to each cables performance "in situ" at home with my own system and listening environment to judge its musicality. Is that close?
On my other non-audio project, with help on another forum I did manage to track down the proper electrical overload protection "heater" element for a vintage magnetic starter I’d acquired to service a 19 amp, 230 volt motor on a 1959 industrial Delta 22-101 planer. That should certainly impress any right thinking electrical engineer. I was jubilant when I finally figured it out and sourced one on Ebay. Galen, here I come. Audio and electrical engineers, look out.
Mike |
Ieales, thanks for the definitions, I couldn't come up with the LCC on Google on my own.
I'll try to do auditions when I'm not overly tired or aggravated. although those two conditions are usually present only when I'm sound asleep. You've certainly got this down to science and Ill heed your warnings to not get fooled by overly bright cables like the Nordosts might be. Thanks for the advice.
Mike
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Jafant, I'll see if I can find the article you read on the Luxman cables. Do you have a link to it? You would think they'd be designed to be a good match with their own amps. I'll put them on my short list if they're not cost prohibitive. Thanks for the suggestion.
Inna, I hope so. Did your Neptunes jump out at you like that?
Mike
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Glupson, .Thanks for the Luxman cable link. I’ll be sticking with zip cord at that price point. Maybe they’ll show up used at a reasonable cost.
Inna, I do recall that someone (you) had mentioned the Luxman’s,
Another general question for you all: I was advised by one manufacturer’s rep that spades made better connections than banana plugs. Another poster mentionded he really had to crank down on his spade lugs to make them work correctly without adding distortion. Any thoughts on one versus the other? Are they pretty much the same, or is there some difference you’re aware of. I’d have to make a choice if ordering new. Mike |
Audio Advisor makes up their own Audioquest Rocket 88 cables, one of those Magico recommended, by putting their own terminations on lengths of Rocket 88 cable off a spool. They then sell them at 51% off list. Does that sound legit to anybody, or no? When I called they said had their own in house "terminator" who used crimped connectors doing this.
Ieales, thanks for the thoughts on the spade connectors. I would think they would be easier to keep clean too. I’m not sure how you’d be able keep the female side of a banana connector . I read you do have to clean the surfaces of the connectors periodically. I read the Magico A’3 manual last night and they said to only hand tighten spade connectors, rather than the easy nut driver solution for keeping them secured. Nothings easy it seems.
Thomas, I have been looking up used cables on the Cable Co site. Did they charge you any fee for loaners? I read they charge 5% of total cable cost for use of their "Cable Library" loaners. I’ll add Analysis Plus to my list.
You can’t go wrong with Elvis. My wife actually heard the young Elvis live in Seattle when she was just a kid. She said you could hardly hear him for the all the girls screaming.
Mike
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Thomas, thanks for the info on The Cable Company's loaner policy.
Jafant, will do
Any thoughts on whether those home brewed Audioquest Rocket 88's from Audio Advisor might be the same quality as the regular priced ones that come from Audioquest with factory installed spades. 51% off provides a temptation, but not if you think Audio Advisor putting on the spades themselves isn't kosher. What do yo think? I really don't want to get hustled.
Mike
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Here’s another question for anybody whose been reading ,or new to this thread. If you had a budget of $1000 for speaker cables, what would you consider buying new around that price point? Also what would you consider getting used, if it is not too rarely available, and can found around that same price?
My speakers are Magico A3’s and the integrated amp a Luxman 507uX Mark II. Thanks for any suggestions. Maybe that price point may narrow down the field and help keep my head from spinning. Thanks,
Mike |
Inna , I found the Purist Audeo Design Museaus Luminas for sale new at the Cable Company for $1095 for ten feet. That’s some progress. I found a sterling review of them too.
Mike |
To clarify my last post I’ll be needing roughly ten feet of speaker cable (about three meters) or maybe a little less depending on where the Magico A3’s sound best in the listening room.
Inna, I read a good review of the Museus but they were asking $1600 for ten feet. I’ll have to look around. They sounded promising. Maybe I can find a better price, or maybe used. I did spot some used Purist Audio products today when looking around but don’t recall which model. You might be on to something here. If my Ortofon 2M Black sounds a little bright I guess I’ll have to live with it. It was supposed to be well matched with the VPI.
Drrsutliff, thanks for recommending the Synchestra Signature Speaker Cables. I was just a few blocks away from the place you provided the link to only last week, when I drove up to Richmond, VA to pick up my Luxman, I could have stopped in and maybe got a demo. I’ll find a review if I can.
Glupson, It’s hard to know what to think about them mounting their own spades with all this cable esoterica in play. Audio Advisor said they can buy the same Audioquest Rocket 88 cable by the spool so you'f think it would be no big deal. I did see Audioquests next higher model Castle Rock for sale used for about $650, but only eight feet long, which would be cutting it a little bit close. I’ll keep looking.
I think you’re right. I’ll send you my PIN for safe keeping. I’m going to the one place in town that carries expensive cables and see if they’ll demo a few so I can see what the differences may be. I think they may only have Audioquests, but differently priced ones, so I should be able to tell something, maybe. I’m staring to get fried out on this subject, but I’m hanging in there. This is not the same fun as buying components.
Mike
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Inna, I just now sent Mr. Porter an email requesting a quote on the Musaeus and Poseidon cables. We'll see what he says. He must have some pretty amazing equipment.
Mike |
Inna, if the Poseidons are just a little over $1000 maybe that's what I'll do. You haven't steered me wrong yet far as I know. I'll try and track Albert Porter down.
Glupson. I'll get this done. My mom used to call me a "grinder" as a kid. I just grind away at things and always ask a lot of questions.
I'd just as soon steer away from Audioquest anyway, as I think someone said they're another "made in China" company. I'll see if I verify that. I read the Purist Audio Design Company is homegrown. In itself that's not any guarantee of quality, but Chinese products so often are a guarantee of the opposite. But I'm beating that horse to death.
Maybe I'll post a list of all the cable companies I've come across, here and elsewhere when I'm finished with this. It's an incredible number considering that the audiophile market has shrunk so much over the years. And each company has such a variety of cables.
Mike |
Ieales, I double-checked, and Audio Advisor does make the no frills in the Rocket 88 too, listed right below the Rocket 44 picture on their site. I don’t think I’ll be getting it anyway, but thanks for checking and finding a potential costly. mistake there.
Twoleftears, the Duelunds are added onto the list. Thanks.
Inna, I was quoted roughly 10% off retail by your recommended dealer. Not bad, thanks. Your Purist Audio Design Museaus Luminas are now the front runners on my short list, coming into the home stretch. I’m still keeping my eye open for used high end products like pricier Transparents, upper end MITs or Purist Audio,, but you don’t seem to find many of the better very pricey ones used for bargain resale prices, maybe because audiophiles hang on to them.
Glupson, I’ve looked at cross sections of some company’s wires and they do look exactly like twisted lamp cord, with the same gauge, and sometimes they don’t even bother to twist it. This might be a potentially semi-profitable business model for you.
Unlike straight wires, most politicians and corporate leaders are naturally twisted. I’m also speculating the same persons who own these audiophile cable companies and name the cables, are the same highbrows who own and name their Westminster Dog Show entrants. You have to admit the names are identical.
Mike
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Jafant, what is it you liked about the Transparent Audio cabling. Thant is one of the cable manufacturers Magico uses and I'm looking into. Glupson, what speaker wire designs do you prefer, or not? I'd be curious to know since the efficacy of various designs are lost on me. I did read Audioquest has two factories, one in the U.S., the other in the Netherlands. There's a YouTube video showing a tour of their U.S. plant. www.stereophile.com/content/video-tour-audioquest Don't know where they source their wire though, maybe the video mentions that. I haven't watched it through. Inna, that does make sense Mike . |
Jack. I’ll give Mike a call, probably tomorrow. Thanks for a good tip. I just looked up where Sarasota is in Florida. I’m planning on driving down near Orlando soon to visit family. SunCoast Audio is almost close enough for a side trip for some demos. What’s an extra 2-1/2 hours after you’ve already driven fifteen. I’m going to check out his website right now if he has one.
Mike |
Ieales, I'm in no rush. I won't even be demoing any cables I can get a hold of until the Magicos arrive in February. I am trying to get both a more truncated long list and a short list together at his point, until then. Also to research online some of the many cables recommend so far, and pricing new and used. I can't remember if you recommended any pricey cables or not, please don't hesitate to do so if you haven't thus far. I'd be curious what you might like in the $1000 range, if anything.
I sent you a PM.
Mike
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Thanks for your explanation ieales. Didn’t mean to put you on the spot if I did. One thousand dollars is only my self imposed budgetary limit. If considerably less expensive cable sounds best in my system, that’s all to the good. If only a $2000 cable cuts the mustard, then I won’t be cutting the mustard.
If the cable is system dependent I only need to narrow down the field somehow to find some speaker cables to try out to discover what works best with my system. Then I can attempt to locate someone who not only carries them, but is willing to provide a loaner. That should be no mean feat in and of itself. So far, the only loaners available locally are Audioquest The sole high end local dealer carrying cables locally will special order the the Rocket 88’s and another for me to try out when my Magicos arrive. I also have some Belden cable some kind soul has provided me to be my baseline.
If for example you’ve heard MIT’s and Transparent’s sounding good in someone’s system, and they’re a reputable well made brand, I’ll try to locate and demo them. That goes for any other you or anybody might suggest "that are (not) just plain bad from an electrical perspective of getting an undistorted signal to the loudspeaker". I have no knowledge on how to know determine that at all.
The Magicos cannot be bi-wired I found out, but sadly that’s about the total extent of my knowledge on what cable designs to avoid. A guy on another thread recommended I try 0 gauge wire of some sort for DIY cables. Who knows about that home brew design? Maybe you, not me. He also suggested trying out that design with automotive jumper cables which might be fun.
I can’t track down all the hundred cables that I have probably have on on my list by now. Even researching that many and looking for reviews would be enough to land me in a nut house. There must be some way to narrow the field to affordable contenders from reputable manufacturers.
I’ve heard the Transparent brand mentioned a few times so I’ll try to locate a pair to try. I am a little concerned only their close to the bottom of the line cables come in for around my upper price range. Same as with those Inna suggests.
Anyway I’m rambling again.
Glupson I saw not only the U.S. and Netherlands on a Audioquest box today, but Hong Kong as well. I should have been a detective.
Mike
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Rbwnci, thanks for recommending the Paul McGowan videos. I’ve watched two or three already. including the one you provided a link to. I’ll indulge in a few more tonight. They are just as you described, informative, understandable, and easy to listen to not to mention right on point.
If I can’t find a video of his on speaker cables and interconnects, I’ll email Mr. McGowan directly and see if I can find out what type cable designs he recommends, and maybe which to avoid. With some luck maybe I could get a video on my question. Stranger things have happened.
Jack, I spoke with Mike Bovaird today. He recommended the Audioquest Rocket 88’s and the MIT Evo Level III’s and possibly Shunyata’s in my price range. He said he’s only an hour and a half out of Sanford, FL where I should be heading soon. A side trip for demos may be in order. Thanks for the recommend.
Wish I could fly down in February to catch that audio show and soak up some sun. I don’t think I could survive another thirty hour drive round trip.
Mike
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Ebm4, the amp selection is in the bag. I recently purchased a new Luxmnan 507uXII integrated.
What I am trying to figure out now is what speaker cable designs are good and should be considered for demo and purchase and which are not. And what elements should be successfully addressed in speaker cable design and how,, such as impedance, capacitance, crosstalk, etc, all terms whose meaning I am unfamiliar with and still have to look up.
Sorting out what's up with cables is unraveling a tangled mess in the dark. There's everything from well engineered products to snake oil. I am going to read the
Galen Gareis articles on cable design today, ieales provided links too, that I haven't gotten around to yet to yet, to help sort this out.
Mike
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