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Please…I need help setting up sub-integration

I recently reclaimed some space in my former 2-unit house so I thought it would time to hook up my stereo again. A friend was selling a used Paradigm Seismic 12 for $800 so I purchased it because the price was so good and it was local. I no longer had speakers so I went to the local Paradigm store to buy a set of monitor 9�s like I had before. I thought I would listen to Paradigm Studio 40 v.3 just to see how those ridiculously (IMO) priced smallish speakers sounded. Suffice to say, I purchased the studio 40s.

I get home and hook them up to my Yamaha v592 surround sound receiver. I suppose I do not have to say how they sounded..sucked. With the seismic 12 hooked up to the LFE out of my receiver I could hear these wild notes that stuck out like a sore thumb. Things actually sound OK without the sub hooked up so I disconnected the sub. So much for my $800.00 reference (1700 retail) 12000 watt sub. So without the sub I was now thinking I should have just purchased the monitor 9�s since they would not be so revealing.

In for a penny in for a pound; I now went on the hunt for a good amp and I purchased a 10 year old Bryston B60 on eBay. Once that was hooked up to the speakers, it was like night and day. I sat down and listed to music for 4 hours strait. If I had a trucker�s cup I would have probably used it instead of going to the bathroom.

So now I go and buy a Paradigm x30 crossover to get my sub hooked up to the Bryston. B60 I hook it up and use the 50 Hz filter to reduce some lows to my studio 40s (they go to 36 hz). I set my cutoff frequency to 60 Hz (recommend as starting point from Paradigm) for the sub and then start playing with sub volume and phase. Suffice to say after hours of fooling I find there are just so many variables to deal with I have no idea what sounds good anymore. There are no more wild notes as everything seems tight, not boomy, but it does not sound like the B6o and just the 40s either, I mean with just more bass. I also noticed that when my cd is paused there was a fair amount of noise coming from the speakers and I am thinking this is because of the X30 as it is not there (a very small amount) with just the B60.

I just unhooked all that stuff and just have my Studio 40s hooked to the Bryston. I am very satisfied with that combination but I can�t help but feel I should be getting that sub hooked up since I purchased it not to mention the X30 and cables.

With all that said, is there an easy way to hook up and integrate my sub for my stereo listening? If I was doing 5.1 I doubt I would really notice integration because so much is going on anyway. I am just about ready to toss the seismic 12 through the window and forget about it for now. Please comment before I list my X30 and Seismic 12 on eBay.
whitneytrading
7 responses Add your response
whitneytrading OP
2 posts
 
Gregm,

Thanks for your advice.
gregm
3,405 posts
 
The frequency response of the S40 is -2dB at 62Hz.
1) Check what the S40's response is at ~35Hz assuming 70Hz is ~0dB If not, find the closest ~0dB frequency on the S40 & check the loss 1octave lower. This will give you an idea of the slope (i.e. how many dBs are lost per octave on the S40)
2) Set the subs/xover's phase at 0 degrees, freq at recommended 60Hz and low-pass slope as per the S40 above. 3)Place the sub inbetween the spkrs for now. 4) Borrow an SPL meter and a test disk and play a reference 1kHz at a "normal" to low level on the s40 and keep the measurement. Likewise, play a 60Hz tone on the sub & adjust volume for a close spl reading. 4) Play the sub 1octave lower and check the reading. 5) Use yr xover to hi-pass yr spkrs at 60Hz or 30Hz whichever is better. Hi pas & low-pass slopes should be the same at this point. Try playing music -- a good recording of orchestral music if possible. 6) Start moving the sub front & back to get the "best" sonic integration. Then start playing around with phase.
Hopefully, you'll get somewhere:)
Caveats:
I assume the S40 are setup meticulously well. Otherwise, you must start by optimising s40 placement without the sub.

Also, bear in mind that the "sub" is used as a "woof".
Cheers
whitneytrading OP
2 posts
 
cdwalace

I will swap out some cables to see if that reduces the noise a bit. Its not like you can hear it from the listening position but can when your ear is against the speaker. For all I know that is normal.

Eldarado

If I did sell the Seismic 12 I could give it a shot here. I have more than 1900 all positive eBay feebacks so that is why I thought of it. If I can not figure this out I will go with your suggestion and stick with just the 40s or I will sell them too and buy the 60s.

Sogood51

My speakers are located in my upstairs living room and that is about13 by 17 feet. It is fairly open concept so the dining room Is off to one side and then the hallway and entryway. So that 13 by 17 room has 10 foot opening to the dining room etc. The speakers are placed on the only wall that is unique to the living room. Kind of in an alcove.

Bob_reynolds

Yes the X30 has a low pass for the sub too.

The frequency response of the S40 is -2dB at 62Hz.

That is what I am talking about. I have no clue what that means and I do not really care but I will take your word for it and do what you suggest. I can understand that using the low test tone to measure the level of the sub and making it the same as the high would make a good match. Trying to just listen by ear makes no sense to me so I am not sure why the paperwork that comes with these things don’t suggest what you do. You should be selling a set up kits for dummies like me. I will go and buy that meter soon.

Thanks for all the responses so far!!!!!!!!1

I really appreciate the time you are taking out of your day to help out a stranger.
Post removed 
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
How big is your room?...exactly. Which wall are you on? Where do you have the speakers placed?...exactly. Where can you place the sub?...anywhere? Where can you place the speakers...anywhere?

The whole deal is about placement. Have you taken any measurements? Both...the main speakers, and the sub...must be placed correctly within the room.

Try the "CARDAS" speaker setup guide for the speakers first, if you must place the sub on the wall behind the speakers, use only that part of the "CARDAS" setup for the sub, that takes room width into account...place the center of the subs woofer at exactly that point.

80hz hi-pass is going to sound better with those speakers IMO, they probably have a built in bass hump...measure them.

Get a spl meter, download the free test tone cd from the good people at "Realtraps" as a good start.

Dave
cdwallace
216 posts
 
Before you do something you may later regret, have you thought about checking the cables to make sure its not them?

"I also noticed that when my cd is paused there was a fair amount of noise coming from the speakers and I am thinking this is because of the X30 as it is not there (a very small amount) with just the B60."

It could be the unit, but before you can the idea check the connections and cables. It wouldn't hurt.
eldarado
381 posts
 
Well, I would sell the equipment here rather than Ebay but, that's just me.

I use to own 40 v2's and they go low enough for most music. If you are happy with just the Bryston and 40's, go with it. Sell the sub and x-over and use that money to upgrade something else or better yet buy some more music.

If you are set on making the sub, work you might try moving the sub around? Away from the walls into the room some? I have heard of people setting the sub in the listening postion and then walking around the room to see where the best sound is coming from and then moving the sub to that spot as a starting point.

Good luck.
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