"05-06-15: Mapman
Zd what's behind the speakers and distance to it certainly matters and worth tweaking for owners but I've moved on to omnis and not looking back anymore"
Sorry, I didn't mean for my post to be just for you. It was just a general statement. I brought it up because it seems like a counter-intuitive thing to do. It's worth a try if you're looking to get more focus. |
"Planar backwave is not in phase with forward firing wave. As a result, planars can have very holographic imaging when set up right but it does not necessarily sound coherent and natural like an omni."
I don't know if you've ever tried it, but putting some type of room tuning product right behind the panel helps a lot. |
" I feel you have to spend 6 figures for a box speaker to get the sound I get from $8k stats. It costs alot of money to get that cabinet out of the way. And alot of technology.
Cerrot (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
6 figures? Vandersteen can get the box out of the way. You can even get into 6 figure territory if you start 2 decimal places to the right where the pennies are accounted for. |
Don't waste you time with Cerrot. He has an agenda. He's just trying to set up the dialogue so he can seamlessly drop it in. Kind of like the way a bird drops a load of carp on your head, just at the right time. |
"05-17-15: Cerrot
An agenda, other than sharing my thoughts on this hobby? wow..."
Looks like your memory may not be working like it was just a few short weeks ago. I can refresh it for you if you like? |
"As fine a loudspeaker as both companies make, the instruments and voices coming out of them sounded 1- Severely miniaturized, much smaller than in life and to the full size images coming from even the modestly-priced .7's. And 2- I found myself looking down on the performers, the sound of instruments and voices being about three feet off the floor."
You can deal with those issues without having to get a panel. With proper equipment matching, you can make images/scale just as big. |
"06-08-15: Bdp24
Not with Vandersteens or the smaller Wilsons, in my experience. The big Wilsons are a different story, for those who can afford them. But for five or ten thousand, panels rule!"
You're right in that I didn't use Wilson or Vandersteen, I did it with a pair of mid 90's Mission floor standers that retailed for around $1000. The images I got were so big it wasn't believable. I didn't really care for the overall sound. My point was that it can be done without panels if you know how to match your gear for that type of result, |
"I can see how they could make things smaller, but the speaker is the final arbitrator. The sound is being squeezed through those drivers the same no matter what signal they are fed. If a speaker sounds "small", nothing upstream can change that characteristic of the speaker, I don't believe.
Bdp24 (Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
"06-14-15: Cerrot
Mattmiller, a box speaker still needs to be a certain size to do that. Regardless of the electrinics you throw at them, the Magico Mini II is one speaker that was never able to vertically fill a soundstage."
The only reason you guys don't believe it is because you haven't had the experience of hearing this for yourself. I'll say it again, the effect can be huge. Images can be a lot bigger than the speaker itself. Its the equipment that is mainly responsible for this.
"06-14-15: Mattmiller
"The sound is being squeezed through those drivers the same no matter what signal they are fed"
This IMO is not true. I have found that with proper electronics a conventional speaker can put out a huge (to the ceiling 8,10,12ft) presentation or soundstage. With the wrong electronics you will never hear this, the sound will be just barely above the speaker or worse down near the floor!"
He's not making that up, or exaggerating in any way. He's just heard this for himself. Also, its not the system being out of phase, Cerrot. If you read my posts, I recommend checking phase to people with problems at least as much as anyone else on this web site. I know instantly when a system is out of phase. Also, with larger images, its pretty hard to miss. |
"I've heard lots of sub-$100k box speakers, but I've yet to hear one that sounds as life-size as a $5k Magneplanar. Sorry if that pisses you off!"
It doesn't piss me off. I don't have any of these problems.
Cerrot,
I have yet to understand something you say.
"We actually don't even hear the spreaker (well, your not supposed to, and thats how it is in my system)"
What exactly do you think a speaker is? And does? |
"06-21-15: Cerrot
Zd - you do not hear any sound coming from my speakers in my room."
I know. I told you not to buy anything until your country gets electricity. What did you expect? |
I'm not falling into your trap Cerrot. lol. You know I use time and phase correct speakers. And I know what you do to them. My Vandersteen's are not going to be the victims like those poor Thiels were. Better luck next time, and happy listening to you too. |
"I'm not sure what music you listen to, But for me PHASE is laughable. Because all the vinyl I listen too was recorded back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's do you think everything was recorded in the same phase?? It wasn't, I assure you! Phase means nothing, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it that's for sure."
There are different ways that a system can be in or out of phase. What you're talking about is absolute phase. The effect is usually small and very difficult to hear. Also, its worth noting that recordings are still not consistent when it comes to phase. The same thing is still going on today, and that's why you see so many preamps and sources with a phase invert switch.
Absolute phase is not the same as phase correct speakers, like my Vandersteens (Or the Thiel's that Cerrot and his friends destroyed). With phase correct speakers, all of the drivers move back and forth at the same time. The effect is much more audible. You can also have a situation where one speaker is out of phase with the other. (The entire speaker as a whole, and not just the drivers.). The effect is huge and is almost always due to someone connecting the speaker cables in error. If your speakers sound like Bose, this is probably why. |
