I'd agree with Marty that the most distinguishing characteristics is 1) the geometry of the reverberant field and 2) differences in how air is pressurized ie you mostly just hear the music whereas with good dynamic drivers you probably can also feel it when called for. |
Polarin mentioned OHMs, which I prefer these days over planars as well. OHMs and Walsh style drivers in general are a totally different breed of "box" speaker for many reasons. I replaced my Maggies with OHMs most recently. I hear Magies still on occasion at dealers and gotta say there is nothing I miss about them still. If I did not listen to pop/rock/electronic music as well as all the rest, I might feel differently. Can't speak for other planars, but same true for Electrostats I have heard like QUAD. I wanted the QUAD sound but with all the large scale dynamics as well that I found limited. OHMs pretty much do it all for very reasonable cost that will vary directly with room size only. |
I recently auditioned Sphinx at my local dealer running magnepans. It was a very good match seemingly. The amp had no problem driving them to reasonably high volume. The room was moderately large.
I'm considering Sphinx for use with my smaller ohms which I have ab compared to magnepans at home in the past and think that to be an even better match with more muscle overall.
Can't comment on Martin Logan. Not much experience there. |
"You cannot get better sound for the money."
That's debatable.
Nothing against the maggies but see discussion above about the inherent differences, strengths and weaknesses.
Bottom line: if you enjoy listening to rock/pop/electronic music and want to feel teh energy of the music as well as hear it, Maggies are NOT a good choice.
If you just want to hear beautiful music sound beautiful, to hell with all the rest then Maggies are hard to beat.
Although there is also the mindset that for beauty in music alone, a simple low wattage 300B SET tube amp with high efficiency speakers is the way to go. There is merit to that argument IMHO. But that is a whole different can of worms, end to end. |
"Planars have a backwave that, because it arrives later than the front output of the speaker, aid the ear/brain system in improving sound source location; IOW imaging and depth. "
All speakers have a backwave. Its more a matter of what frequencies are contained in the backwave and the magnitude. Planars have more of both than most box designs. Omnis also have more of both and also have a more 360 degree radiation pattern as opposed to a simple backwave firing 180 degrees in the opposite direction only.
The omni 360 degree dispersion pattern is more like what occurs when sound is generated in real life. IMHO, omni presentation is more realistic/lifelike in general as a result, but planars are a step in that direction compared to most forward firing box designs.
The wvefront generated by an omni is also phase coherent in all directions which results in a very coherent/natural sound.
Planar backwave is not in phase with forward firing wave. As a result, planars can have very holographic imaging when set up right but it does not necessarily sound coherent and natural like an omni. Its like listening to a gong strike. Very holographic and impressive with lots of sound everywhere but I find I do not enjoy planars nearly as much as I used to when I hear them now that I am acclimated to very high quality omni sound. The coherency is just not there. Except for things that radiate sound like a gong. :^) |
Zd what's behind the speakers and distance to it certainly matters and worth tweaking for owners but I've moved on to omnis and not looking back anymore |
"A major difference is the "waveform Launch" of a big Magnepan Vs a cone speaker!"
That is a common difference.
The difference between a wide range omni and either planar or cone speakers is even greater. Some will love it and never look back. Others might not ever take to it.
Most people are conditioned towards the sound of box speakers at home. Those with good ears who are also well conditioned towards what non-amplified music sounds like live are most likely to take to the omni sound. IMHO of course. |
But when talking about "waveform launch", its important to note that other than in an anechoic chamber, the surroundings/room plays a very significant role.
I tend to find that when a good speaker of each unique type is set up well, with room acoustics properly factored in, that they all tend to sound more similar than different in presentation.
I tend to think in terms of listening to teh music in my room, not what is coming out of the speakers, though that cetrtainly is the source. I try to use my room and then perhaps tame it slightly as needed whereas some choose to more "fight" the room after the fact of having placed a system that does not sound right in there in the first place.
Its all a matter of what players are involved and how one chooses to play the game. In the game, it can all work out similarly well. The variety of systems out there that all sound really good are the proof. |
"" I feel you have to spend 6 figures for a box speaker to get the sound I get from $8k stats. It costs alot of money to get that cabinet out of the way. And alot of technology.
Cerrot (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
You can get it it in a small to moderate sized room with a piar of smaller used OHM Walshes sometimes for well under $1000. Those that use later revisions of the OHm Walsh CLS driver are best, mk/series II, III or current X000 series.
The first genration OHM CLS drivers used in original OHM Walsh models from teh early to mid 80s sound similar but are not nearly as refined sounding as good modern speakers, ES or otherwise. Those can still be had in all sizes for all sized rooms still on teh used market all for under $1000 usually. |
Cerrot give me some more sample tunes to try and what to listen for and I'll give it a shot and report back. I don't have any of those specifically to try.
I can say I have heard similar details in various recordings but of course every recording is different so need to compare apples and apples.
Also I can say I have listened to many high end systems and live performances in the process of putting my rig together and my goal that I feel I have achieved quite well is little or no compromise. |
Cerrot do you use plex? If so we can hook up as friends on that site and
both have access to my music library to compare the same source files on
each of our systems. I think as a friend you might even be able to
download files. Not sure. Most of my library is cd quality Flac format. |
Broadstone, your accounting is 100% in line with what I might expect having had a limited sampling of the various technologies and products mentioned, including Rogue Sphinx which I have rated quite highly in my current audio toys draft ratings. |
Cerrot ohms from early 80s would not likely do what you say. Those were the gen 1 models. I mentioned. The later revisions up to and including current x000 line are up to snuff in comparison to other very good modern speakers I hear.
I had those originals for years along with other more modern designs to compare including the newer ohms. I've a/b Ed them side by side so I am confident with my assertions accordingly. |
Shameless plug:
ES/planar fans, I have my STAX SR84 Electret phones up for sale here if anyone is interested. You won't find that planar ES sound for any less than these anywhere. Plus they work well with most any amp.
Why am I selling these you ask? I am in process of clearing out some of my older currently unused gear that has value. If they don't sell I'll probably set up yet another system in the house with them someday, maybe running off a SET amp.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/over-ear-stax-sr84-lambda-pro-jr-earspeakers-and-15-foot-extension-cable-2015-07-03-headphones-21136-reisterstown-md
BTW the other STAX up for sale on this site currently are all 10X plus what I am asking for these. These sold for $300 back in 1998 or so. I also have a long STAX extension cable included to make listening possible from most anywhere in a room. |
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