Placing Instrument Separation of Large Ensembles in Recordings

I listen exclusively to classical and I am familiar with your streamer.  I don’t know the amp and the 

Orchestral Music is difficult to reproduce.  My own system improved when I added DSP and added a sub.  The DSP help correct for room modes and the way that you describe the blackness of orchestra reproduction in your system this may be an issue.  And Quads are notoriously bass shy speakers so a musical sub will probably help a lot

It’s possible to hear lone double bass players at a concert, and occasionally snatches of individual string players.  Usually the strings are playing as a choir; for example all the first violins have the same music; but a really good player will stand out.  Robert Chen is one of the Chicago Symphony concertmasters, and from my first balcony seat I can clearly distinguish his tone from the others.

  The OP is asking how do you get this kind of realism in your system, without it sounding unnatural (spotlighting).  It’s one of the most challenging tasks for a system.  I think it is much easier to reproduce smaller ensembles, pianos (which are very difficult), and all pop music.

  I would again suggest adding a musical sub (REL) and DSP at least with digital.  I think it’s impossible to get that kind of concert hall realism with analog 

I’ve never understood what the IsoRegen was supposed to do-apparently it is no longer manufactured-but as I understand it it recooks and supposedly cleans up the usb signal.  That is not the same as DSP, which analyzes your room and attempts to correct for room related problems.  DSP systems come with microphones and a device to emit tones which then get analyzed by software, usually on a computer but potentially on a phone. Changes are then made in digital output, particularly in the LFE.

  Consider this: No ones listening room can ever approximate a concert hall.  DSP attempts to create the illusion that you are in a hall.  Like every thing in audio one can debate endlessly how successful it is.  I find that when done correctly it gets me one step closer to the real thing 

@goofyfoot 

You don’t seem to understand what DSP is.

It isn’t room treatment.

It isn’t reclocking a usb signal.

  I attempted to explain it in a previous post but I failed to explain it to you in a way that you can understand.

  I suggest you read up on it yourself.  The 2 companies that I use are Anthem, where ARC is included with their receivers, and Dirac, which in my 2 channel system with a MiniDSP.  I would take the time because I believe it will help with your problem.

You could of course also try changing every component in your system-one at a time- and see what happens there.  Starting with DSP would be easier and probably cheaper.  Good Luck

Yeah the sub number is a controversy in and of itself.  The dogma used to be that bass is unidirectional and one sub would do it.  Now the prevailing trend is one sub per speaker.  I have room limitations in my 2 channel and one sub does it for me.  It makes more sense to have more than one in my 5.1, but I just haven’t gone there 

@goofyfoot 

Apology accepted.

I think that some of your prejudices, or pre conceptions, are going to interfere with your goals here.  These prejudices aren’t unreasonable but let’s explore them.

  The price of a product such as Minidsp relative to the price of the rest of an expensive system does lead to skepticism about potential merits.  Would it make a believer if they increased the price of the identical product 100 fold?  Many high end components bundle Dirac or ARC in so I guess many buyers don’t realize how inexpensive the RC actually is, and therefore don’t have the cognitive dissonance that you are undergoing.  

  DSP isn’t the first Digital Product that is relatively inexpensive to produce but is then inflated by the manufacturer.  I won’t name the company but a few years ago I was going to purchase a DAC that was loudly promoting a “Femto Clock” as the reason for purchase, and the new DAC cost twice the manufacturer’s previous top model.  An online reviewer pointed out that the Femto Chip, which they sourced from a third party, cost them $10 each, and the power supply for that chip about the same, yet the manufacturer was charging around $1000 for the DAC.  As you probably know Femto chips are now standard in most DACs.  The point is that due to the fact that many Digital Devices have been used and developed in the IT world, it doesn’t cost a fortune to apply them to the HEA world.  This should be a good thing but it does seem counterintuitive because we are use to a paradigm where quality is directly related to cost.

  Regarding using subwoofers with Electrostatics, I suspect that if you were to successfully implement one, most of the issues in your OP would improve.  The key is successfully implementing the sub.

  I didn’t want to add one to my two channel system either, but when I did it was one of those ear opening moments.  I use REL subs-and only one- because they are the most musical that I have encountered.  The depth of the sound stage took a major leap, as the percussionists and double basses now seemed to be in their proper location (namely, behind the rest of the orchestra, stage right and left, respectively).  I could easily distinguish when a conductor was dividing the seating of the first and second violins.  And that old canard that a good sub should even make a solo flute sound better, which I always thought was nonsense, was revealed.

  Most importantly were the low level percussion effects that composers such as Mahler and Shostakovich use in their symphonies.  There are all kinds of reinforcement with tympani and snares and other percussion that isn’t meant to be highlighted.  I used to think that the only was to really feel that viscerally, even though it’s meant to be low level, was to hear live performances.  Live is still the Gold Standard but the sub and DSP at least get me part of the way.

  Subs come with their own DSP , but yes I prefer the DSP that Dirac provides.

Electostatics are great for chamber music, solo piano, guitar, and most piano recordings.  If they are going to adequately attempt to reproduce a large orchestra, in the most demanding repertoire, they need help