Phono Stage upgrade to complement Dohmann Helix One Mk 2


Thanks to the recommendations from many users on this Audiogon blog, I think I was able to make a more informed purchase of a turntable, the Dohmann Helix One Mk 2.  I've really been enjoying the turntable for the past month!  

The next phase of my system now needs attention:  the phono stage.  Currently, I'm using a Manley Steelhead v2 running into an Ypsilon PST-100 Mk2 SE pre-amplifier (into Ypsilon Hyperion monoblocks, into Sound Lab M745PX electrostatic speakers). 

I've been told that I could really improve my system by upgrading the phono stage from the Manley Steelhead (although I've also been told that the Manley Steelhead is one of the best phono stages ever made).  
Interestingly, two of the top phono stages that I'm considering require a step-up transformer (SUT).  I'm not fully informed about any inherent advantages or disadvantages of using an SUT versus connecting directly to the phono stage itself.  

I suppose my current top two considerations for a phono stage are the Ypsilon VPS-100 and the EM/IA  LR Phono Corrector, both of which utilize an SUT.  I don't have a particular price range, but I find it hard to spend $100k on stereo components, so I'm probably looking in the $15k - $70k price range. 
Thanks. 

drbond

Showing 3 responses by dover

@drbond 

Here is a great comparison of state of the art phono's FM Acoustics, Goldmund  etc - an excellent read - you can use google translate. It is well worth it.



Part 1 :

mp.weixin.qq.com

6台顶级唱放对比测试,超跑级黑胶系统为参考(1)

唱放之间的差异,远远超出我们的脑放,尤其在参考级唱盘上。

mp.weixin.qq.com mp.weixin.qq.com


Part 2 :

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11台顶级唱放对比测试,超跑级黑胶系统为参考(2)

德国Trinity黄金参考前级的加入,把本次测试推向了高潮。

mp.weixin.qq.com mp.weixin.qq.com


Part 3 :

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12台顶级唱放对比测试,黑胶元年真的来了(3)

顶级玩家那里黑胶一直没有衰落,软硬件革命性突破更是火上加油。

mp.weixin.qq.com mp.weixin.qq.com


Part 4 :

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唱放中的"金陵十二钗": 唱放测试终结篇(4)

哪个是黛玉?哪个是宝钗?大家最关心的可能是哪个是秦可卿。。。

mp.weixin.qq.com mp.weixin.qq.com

 

Personally I find current mode input mc phono  stages such as the van den hul grail to be the most transparent and musical - step up transformers have phase shifts and cartridge matching issues, fet's are grainy, and tubes whilst very musical can be too noisy for some.

I have settled on a bespoke current mode mc input combined with tube preamp - ultra low noise, high resolution and musical. The current mode mc input I use can amplify from cartridges with output down to 0.1mv with ease.

Well the Ypsilon Hyperion monos got a blisteringly good review in both Absolute Sound and Stereophile. Michael Fremer concluded that the Ypsilon passive preamp was as transparent as his reference Dartzeel. He also concluded that the Hyperion monos were as good as the Dartzeel 458 mono’s

"Side 2 was mind-bogglingly better than I’d ever heard it, all of the inner instrumental voices clearly revealed. Especially amazing was the return of the trumpet call, backed by delicate, barely audible woodwinds that were now clearly delineated—and, a few minutes later, the triangle, each stroke’s attack, sustain, and decay convincingly reproduced with great deliberateness and delicacy. And string pizzicati were perfection." MF review

It is clear that the Ypsilon PST100/Hyperion monos are superb by any standard.

In my experience the most compelling systems are those where the owner has selected a speaker they like, and then they found the best amplifier to drive those chosen speakers. In the case of @drbond he owns Atmasphere OTL’s, CJ , and Lamm M2.2 mono amps and has concluded the Ypsilon Hyperions are superb in his system on his Soundlab speakers. I don’t doubt this having heard many amps on Soundlab A1’s, both tube and solid state, they are very sensitive to amplifier choice.

You cannot select an amplifier based on specifications, they are only a guide. Of course if one partakes in copious amounts of tequila and electric puha then perhaps a JC1+ might be perceived to be SOTA

Now back to phono stage options....

 

 

Interesting - I don't profess to know much about AnalogMagik, but a cursory look raises a few issues that I think could be cause for concern -

AudioMagik believes the optimal gain level is the one which yields the highest Signal to Noise ratio."

This is not right. You need to look at gain in the context of the system.

There are 2 aspects to consider.

Cartridge interface to phono

It is quite easy when matching low output mc cartridges with high gain phono stages, to overload the phono, particularly at ultrasonic frequencies - leading to sound quality issues that are more about gain matching than cartridge set up.

Even if the overloading is at ultrasonic frequencies supposedly outside the "audible range", artefacts of ultrasonic overload may impact back down in the audible range.

Therefore you only want enough gain in the phono to obtain the optimum balance between low noise floor, decent headroom, natural dynamics and enough output to drive the next stage at its optimal level. Remember the line stage optimum level is also dependent on the sensitivity and load characteristics of the succeeding stage - in this case power amp.

Phono to Line Stage

Too much gain into the next stage could lead to overload. So for example, you might have a high SNR from a phono using high gain, but at a cost.

Ordinarily it should be hard to overload a competent line stage - however if a phono is outputting distortion at ultra high frequency into an active line stage with poor overload margins at those frequencies - hey presto you have a problem - and the optimum in this case may be lower gain, giving up SNR, may be of benefit.

Similarly if driving a passive line stage, insufficient gain may cause other issues down the chain - loss of dynamics for example, poor signal to noise ratio into the power amp.

In my view you should use Analogmagik as a guide, for better understanding of whats going on, but ultimately should select gain by ear, balancing low noise versus adequately driving each succeeding stage without overload nor insufficient load.

In @drbond s case, experimenting with the CH Precision gain in tandem with  his line stage may yield an optimum result above or below the CH recommended gain.

Trust your ears - if I'm looking to find optimum gain settings between components I am looking for the most natural presentation - not dull, not hyped.

Same with their loading suggestions -

AM has you play pink noise (noise with equal energy per octave) and displays the frequency response, both raw and smoothed, between 20Hz and 24kHz. In the graph, muddy will be indicated by elevated bass or low mid frequencies. Bright will display as elevated treble. AM's 'just right' loading is when the smoothed frequency response graph is flattest.  

Again there is an assumption that flat frequency response is optimal.

It may not be. There may be downsides of trying to flatten the frequency response, the cure may be worse than the remedy. 

Analogmagik may be a useful tool to understanding your system and system set up  for loading, gain etc, but ultimately you have to trust your ears. I don't see it as gospel, more an analysis tool to help understand your system. 

In this case @drbond has 2 arms and cartridges - so he can compare the behaviour of changing the parameters of each cartridge/phono set up - this is useful.

I would encourage him to try out the voltage gain option as well at some stage to get an understanding if voltage vs current mode for each of his cartridges. This will vary dependent on cartridge of course and can't be used for a generalised conclusion.