Phono's $2100 to $2600

Yes, I have been torn re ss vs tube.  Since I have a tube pre and my current phono is ss I thought ss might be ok if . the phono is superior to what I have now.
Between the Zesto and the Allnic did you notice any particular strength of one over the other.
I often find that with well designed equipment it is after a matter degrees in different areas of performance unless we are looking considerably different price ranges.  And the upgrade to my trigon at these levels should be substantial.
Even the PHD which I mentioned should be a very considerable advancement.

That's a good point- decisions decisions.
And yes I had been looking for $1k phono but after the other upgrades I decided to go for a more significant improvement.  I just love how my records sound now- very close call with the digital side (I have a Simaudio 280d dac also hooked up with a Nordost usb cable- the cable was a major step up)....the streaming sounds more defined and dynamic but I feel the vinyl sounds more organic; there is less of an electronic sheen if that makes any sense.  And with the Thiels you have to be careful with trebble- can become too forceful and electrnic hash can easily be heard.  That said, both are very good but if I can get qualities of the digital playback without the downside I mentioned it will be heaven....I think.

@ tablejockey
as for the presents I basically said I wanted one thing and one thing only....so I managed to avoid wallets and socks and belts for presents on my bday and xmas.  My wife thinks I have gone off the deep end.

Anyway, thanks for the very interesting feedback.  Btw, I do indeed use a PL Dialogue pre-amp driving Pass labs mono's- works great.  I think I could take the system a lvel further with a higher end preamp but now I am focused on the analogue upgrade.

So nobody seems to keen on the idea of an older Sutherland PHD?  I have to say I am very curious about trying it after everything I read and it certainly would be a cheap option compared to what I listed above.

@tablejockey 
The PL is really a wonderful preamp- and yes I do switch out NOS tubes a lot...I'v been going between Brimar's, Amperex, and Telefunken's- and they do all sound different.  The first sound more lush and full, the Amperex more defined in the reproducing the sound stage, and the Telefunken's somewhere in between. I cannot say which sounds better vs the other as it really depends on the source material ; I would probably say the 1st two are my favorite.  I have yet to try Mullard's.  What I can say is that I just love the whole experience.

I would like to try to upgrade from the PL just to see what a preamp with an upgraded volume control could do vs alps pot.  If I where to identify where my system falls short is soundstage depth- it is there but I think it could be significantly deeper-  and slightly better soundstage placement.  I think this may indeed be related tin part to the volume control and other better internals.

That said, right now I am focusing more on the phono.  

After doing a little more research I think the PS Audio for SS is a worthy alternative- with my current phono as a trade in it would be $2k.

As for tube option I am not quite sure which way to go.

And then between the two- SS or tube- I am still pondering.  A lot of other members are suggesting the Allnic is the way to go.

hello all- apologies for not responding sooner but work was been crazy.

Thank you for the great suggestions- I did a bit of reading on the NVO and it really does sound like something I should consider- and lo and behold! there is a used one for sale.  BUT it is a tad out of my range at basically $3000.

@baralobrain
If I could get a 1.2 at $2k I would dealt- I have only been able to find the PS1 used at that price- actually not even that that price but more like $2100 or so.

Since I can get an Allnic 1202 for $2600 I kind of feel that would be the smarter proposition (it would be new open box).

I also came across Art Audio Vinyl Reference for $2000 and have heard and read very good things about it.

Lastly, do you have any experience with the phono module for the Vinnie Rossi LIO?  I could get a LIO which I have always been interested in trying against my PL- and spoke to Vinnie and he has some of the phono modules he could install.  The interesting aspect of his Phono module is that he uses Cinemag transformers for the MC gain (goes to 60db).  It is an interesting alternative.  So in ine shot I could do a preamp and phono test.

If I don't go this route and don't find an older PHD at a good price I think that for SS I may go with the PS Audio Stellar Phono Micheal Fremer loves so much .

Tube- really trying to nail down an alternative to go with.  Allnic is more that I'd like to spend if I can help it- so then there are all those others you mentioned.  And it just isn't easy!  So many good suggestions....

In terms of system synergy I think many are always trying to find the right balance between brighter and dynamic without spliing ober to overly detailed and etched,  Other situations where the phono tends to be more laid back is sometimes considered a bit boring.  For my part, with the Thiel 3.7's which are lively of themselves I am less concerned about that aspect-  what I do want to achieve is greater texture, and a deeper more defined soundstage.  As an example I was recently listening to Chet Atkins/Mark Knopfler Neck and Neck- wonderful record.  The system presents very very well- I am amazed at some of the nuances in their playing you can pick up from the grooves; and the speakers just disappear.  However I think there could be a more defined separation between Chet and Mark in a more 3 dimensional stage.  It is there but you have to follow closely to make sure you understand the intricate back and forth- I think this could be better portrayed without having to make as much of a mental effort.

Anyway, sorry I am rambling.

Just wanted to explain in a bit more detail where I am trying to go.....

I'll offer $2001!! :-)

Tablejockey- you are using a Fosgate right?
I will also look into the modwright and chinook.  On the latter I kind of got the impression that maybe the zesto might be a better choice- that said a chinook popped up at the right price I would seriously consider it.

I can see why- it sounds like an excellent piece of equipment- I was not familiar with it.  This might indeed be the way to go if a used one popped up.

Btw, I spoke to Sutherland engineering that sell a replacement board for the PHD but using wallwart instead- basically it is a PHD but without using the batteries as Ron Sutherland is now doing with his other phono stages like the Insight, 20/20 etc (in fact the inside looks like the current circuit boards Ron is designing).  The board sells for $750 which seems like a very good price and I may just have one of those mounted in chassis- as I have mentioned earlier I was always intrigued by the PHD.
If it doesn't work out I would think I could sell it without too many issues- I might give this one a wing in the meantime. 

Deep down though I think tubes my suit me better but still, The PHD should be a very interesting experiment considering the mark it has left on the audio community since it was introduced.

Thanks tablejockey.

and thanks rooze- that was super informative.

So here's where I am at-
I have also been in contact with a Sutherland N1 seller...so,  the N1 phono should be quite something as it based on the duo with a lighter power supply.  And the N1 should have pretty impressive line stage- would be interesting to compare with Primaluna; (both line stage and phono have their own mono boards). It is a very very intriguing alternative although my understanding is that the N1 uses a chip volume control which usually loses some bits.

If not I might do another tube preamp with better volume control than the PL and "new" PHD or ultimately a tube phono- Zesto or Allnic with Allnic really seeming to be the way to go but of course at a total price- linestage and phono would be considerably higher.

Thank you tomic601- I would love to consider the Herron but new it is out of my price range and used they just don't come up.

Glad to hear you love Sutherland- when the PHD came out I had always wanted to try one of his designs.  So mow I just might.

@tablejockey- yes, the N1 better sound pretty spectacular;  I would pay much much less- what is interesting as having an all in one solution.  The entire unit consists of seperate mono boards for phono and preamp respectively.
As for volume control a lot of engineers got to great length  to improve on potentiometers in their higher end models- stepped attenuators and the like.  I suspect it does make a considering difference e to the purity of the signal but I would have to compare side by side.