This is not about my current system. It is an open question, I am interested in other people's opinions and rationale. But since you mentioned speakers, though it was implied in my question, we'll assume that either particular speakers work well with either tube or ss, or that they can be replaced.
My rationale is that the beginning of the signal chain is the most important step. But that would have to be a great tube phono stage or I wouldn't bother. |
Would not want an excessive bloom and certainly would not tolerate decrease in PRAT and dynamics. A little more rounded bass OK. I prefer speakers on a slightly warmer side, somewhat relaxed not uptight. So the idea would be to create a hybrid amplification with more natural presentation.
Tha cartridge..let's think of Lyra or Transfiguration.
Lamm phono is in very high esteem, it would take quite a phono stage to compete and better it. |
Orpheus10, good choice. Yeah, VAC and Lamm - top level. |
You people are killing me, I would have to get preamp and amp at the same time and deal with the phono later. Better start saving on lunches and other things. I will also consider VAC all tube integrated, I suspect that something like Rogue Pharaoh hybrid would not be enough but maybe I'll try it as well. Ideally, I would probably go with Lamm tube preamp and hybrid monos - a lot of money. I only think of used equipment except cartridges. How would VAC preamp work with Rowland 8T? Anyone tried? |
It appears that everyone would start with tube preamp.
My current system is more or less balanced, and whenever I am ready to upgrade anything, except perhaps the cartridge, this in fact would be the beginning of an entire system overhaul or totally new system. In a situation when I have outboard phono stage but integrated amp with no pre out/ power amp in, getting tube preamp would mean getting some power amp too. I like to wait and upgrade in big steps. But I am going to keep my Nottingham Spacedeck/Spacearm and Nakamichi 682ZX deck for a very long time, the rest can go. |
I don't have much experience with various phono stages so others might want to explain in details what happens to the signal. |
Jmcgrogan2, yes I remember that you got VAC integtated. What speakers do you use with it?
As for me, the older I get, still not too old, the more I want big amps, be it Rowland or Lamm or something else. But yeah, some modern integrateds, including your VAC, are enough for many set-ups. Still, nothing will beat great separates. The cost? Well, $4.5k for Rowland 8T and probably the same for Rowland or VAC preamp. Or, about $5k for Lamm tube preamp plus $6.5k for older hybrid monoblocks. I doubt that it would make sense to mix VAC and Lamm, but you never know. If they are electrically compatible.
But I am intrigued by Ypsilon amps that we were talking about in another thread. Too damn expensive, even the integrated. |
Yes, 125 pounds is just too much to move around all by yourself, I wouldn't even try.
I agree it would be about double the cost of your VAC if we are talking new. If used, that would vary. Also,some equipment is almost impossible to find used.
I would think that building separates would be following the simplicity principle, but you could look at it the other way around, sure. |
Whart, agree about the symbiosis. Yes, interested in general views and considerations.
Atmasphere's opinion has a lot of weight but so far he is the only one to express this particular view, though before initiating this thread intuitively I thought that tube phono should come first and then the rest if needed. |
So, the choice may depend on cartridge type - tube phono with LOMC but perhaps either tube or transistor with MM. Low level detail is important. |
Stingreen, we are not talking about simplicity or orthodox purist approach where it is either all tube with possible hybrid amp or all solid state preferably from the same manufacturer. With cables, at the high level and above, I would agree, unless someone wants to experiment with thousands of combinations. Not me. |
I agree with the statement about human ear. There is enough of the tape hiss when I am listening to my Nak cassette deck and yet you can hear a lot into the noise.
Atmasphere, this is an important point, thank you. |
I would still have to get power amp at the same time - too much. Besides, I am a strong believer in separate phono stage. |
Well, it does appear that tube phono would be overall the best first move. In my particular case, I would go with only top level phono - Lamm, VAC, Atma-Sphere, CAT, maybe Herron etc. Worth the wait and patience. Then I would probably upgrade my integrated to one of the better integrateds, and then - separates, tube preamp and tube/ss/hybrid amp depending on speakers and the entire system. So, the path seems quite clear. |
Orpheus10, of course the sound can be improved unless you already have absolutely top of the line phono stage, then it can only be made slightly different not better. Some here believe that only tube phono can achieve the highest level. Grado has a warm full emotional sound, I use his headphones though not cartridges because I believe that would be too much of a good thing with my table/arm and speakers. I use Goldring 1042 MM which has more of a balanced neutrality but not at all cold sounding. For my system Lyra Delos seems to be a logical upgrade. |
Yeah, phono stage should be at least one step ahead until cartridge catches up if ever. In terms of cost that usually means double the price or more. |
Orpheus10, you are right, and I would think of at least $4k or a little more. That would get you in used Lamm, VAC, Atma-Shere, CAT territory.Many really like their Herrons. That is if you are thinking tube phono stage. |
