Phantom Supreme to 4Point-14?


I'm considering it. Who's done it and what did you think? Members who've heard a head-to-head comparison are also welcome to chime in.

The turntable is an SP10R in Artisan Fidelity plinth. Cartridges at this point are an mainlyan A90 and Benz Ebony TR, but I'm planning for a MSL Gold or Platinum sometime down the road.

Thanks.

wrm57

Showing 6 responses by mijostyn

I would not go with the 14. Go with the 11. I do thing it is a better arm for many cartridges than the Graham and certainly a lot better value. My personal favorite is the 9. I understand the 11 and 9 won't fit. I own the MSL Signature Platinum and the 14 will be too heavy for it without a lot of damping which puts added stress on the cartridge. Take a look at the Schroder LT. It has the right spindle to mounting hole distance for your table and it is a tangential tracker that does not require anti skating. Very cool design. A 12" Tri Planer would work and a 12" Reed 2G would work. There is not much wrong with the SME V12 either. 

I think lewm meant the sonic differences between the 9 or 10 Inch and the 12 Tri Planar would be impossible to predict. He is right about the LT. I am amazed by the design and think it is brilliant lateral thinking. The understand it the best thig to do is pull the patent which is online. 

I do not like VTA towers. It is totally unnecessary to be changing it all the time and I have never had trouble adjusting it in the standard way. It makes the back of the mounting point of the arm more complicated and less rigid. Set it to 93 degrees on a 150 gram record and forget it. I use a modified Wallyscope to do this but I think younger eyes should have no problem with a hand held magnifier. You get a blank file card and draw a sharp black 93 degree angle on it and place it behind the stylus on the record. You have to accommodate to the type of stylus and sometimes it is very hard to see the contact line which is why I use the microscope. Your ears can only ballpark it. 

The 4 point 14 is simply too heavy for it. The Japanese measure compliance at 100 Hz. We measure it at 10 Hz. Add 10 to the Japanese number and you will be close to the real compliance which for the MSLs is 20. Now do your math. Math is a poor way to calculate the real resonance point. Always measure it with a test record. I always push it down to 8 Hz and if it winds up at 7 Hz fine as long as your turntable tolerates it. This improves the bass. To prevent low frequency feedback you would have to add damping. Long arms have much more inertia which you have to add into the equation. It is harder for the cartridge to move it and stop it's movement. Tracking warps and eccentric records becomes much more of a problem. This is why I only use 9" arms. They track much better and put much less stress on the cartridge. The MSLs do perfectly in an arm like the Schroder CB, Reed 2G, SME V and 9" TRi Planar. If you want to spend a pile of money get the SAT arm. Frank Kuzma is not God and can not change the laws of nature. He probably does not use subwoofers. All he is doing is trying to justify the mass of the Safir, not an arm for me.  My next arm will be a Schroder LT. I'll have to get a turntable that can handle it first. Dohmann has yet to put a vacuum  platter on the Helix as he promised. 

@larryi The degree of SRA change with the platter running varies with stylus shape and compliance. The MSL drops 2 degrees running while the MC Diamond does not quite make it to 1 degree. I have not looked at the Lyra yet but it is probably close to the MSL. 93 degrees is an average. 

@wrm57 , Excellent. The MinusK is the best platform. 

It is impossible to know exactly what is going on with your turntable. I was never crazy about unipivot arms. What are you using to align the cartridge? 

@wrm57 , Did Thom have any tonearm suggestions?

Wally tools are overall very good. I use the Skater and Reference. I also have a very modified Wallyscope which is really a lab grade Amscope USB microscope on a highly modified microscope stage. I also use a SmarTractor which, IMHO, is the best protractor for old eyes. It is also killer for mounting tonearms. 

wrm, This is in no way an insult to you. It is a design issue all humans have to one degree or another. When it comes to very minor differences our minds can play tricks on us. This is so true about slight changes in VTA. Changes in VTA affect high frequencies. As the contact point of fine line styluses changes VTA  it disengages from high frequency modulations first. The thinner the contact point the higher the frequency affected. Modern styluses can easily read 50 kHz you would have to tilt them five degrees to have any effect on audible frequencies. You are hearing what you expect to hear unless you are comically off 93 degrees. You have to prove this to your self which is not easy to do. I did it by making digital recordings at different angles so I could make instant AB comparisons with my wife doing the switching. Now, I set my cartridges up under magnification so the VTA is as accurate as you can get it. In many instances the real VTA may be far enough off that a one degree change might make a difference. I suspect this is part of the reason for this insanity. The first thing to do is make sure you have a very accurate way to set VTA. If you have an MSL, Lyra or upper model Ortofon you can assume the angles are right on and you can use a Wally Reference. I cannot speak for other high end cartridges as I have not examined them. I can also say that the Soundsmith Voice and Clearaudio Charsma were built correctly so I suspect their other higher end cartridges are also.  Other than those the only way to be sure is with a microscope. Using just your eyes can be very tricky because the contact line might not be central on the stylus. With the Replicant 100 it is more towards the rear and hard to see. 

In short, give yourself an accurate way of setting VTA then set it and forget it. 

I am not a fan of "S" shaped tonearms. It adds unnecessary mass and inertia to a tonearm. I am extremely minimalist when it comes to tonearms, less is better. I do not want any contacts between the cartridge clips and the RCAs at the phono stage end. No VTA towers or hanging strings, no elaborate head shells.  

@wrm57 , I currently use a Schroder CB 9" and am very happy with it. I have talked with Frank by email on several occasions. The very longest he recommends is 11" and no longer. It is a wonderful design and IMHO the perfect pivoted offset arm. It hits all the important design criteria I have.

As for the Wallyscope that is a conversation I would rather have privately as it is a long one. Mine really is no longer a Wallyscope. It is an MS Tool and Woodcraft one off design. Message me and we will talk. 

Yes, you have to make sure your VTA is set correctly or all bets are off. You also need a way to remove any personal bias from the equation and that is not easy.  If you currently have a VTA tower and can adjust it on the fly without disturbing the turntable have someone else do the adjusting while you sit in the listening chair. They should also keep a record of the results to show you.