Hey Speedy, Just finished HE 2006, still lodged in the hotel. After having used the new Berning ZH270 SE for the show, I can tell you that I'm REALLY impressed with this amplifier and I'm looking forward very much to hearing the higher-end designs that Berning is going to be introducing in the future (I saw pictures of renderings and they look beautiful, too!). The Berning is a great choice, based on my experience this weekend in a mid-sized room at the Sheraton Gateway. I know that Andy Singer loves the Zanden amps on his Diablos, as well, although I haven't heard this combo for myself. Jules Coleman had the Zoltans hooked up to Shindo Richbourg (25 watts) in his review SUPERIOR AUDIO REVIEW - lots of choices to audition! |
Stereovox,what would you consider to be the "best" amps to drive the Diablo with?Please be specific,for mid size room. |
Stereovox,yes,got it.Impressive!
Thanks! |
Hi Speedy,
Thanks for the kind words. Did you get the impedance and phase plot I sent for Diablo? It's a beaut, it's for real, and I've never seen anything like it except maybe from a ribbon or a resistor.
If you're out in LA (I'm here now), come to the show and have a listen, we'll have some fun. I went to Amoeba to buy some records today - just a little fun, picked up some interesting titles. David Bowie narrates Peter and the Wolf, Ormandy conducting, RCA Red Label on green vinyl. Frampton Comes Alive (always fun for live concert stuff), Stan Ridgeway/Mosquitos, Loose Fur/Born Again in the USA, Brian Eno/Apollo Atmospheres and Soundtracks ... I've got some Jazz and Classical that I sent ahead for the show, as well (The Bernstein Conducts Bernstein Candide overture is gigantic!).
Cheers!
Chris |
Stereovox,your overall "web" demeaner is reason enough,for me,to want to do business with you,at a future point.Thanks for being so direct,as well as seemingly genuine! |
Hi Kops,
Nothing wrong with the SF Amati Anniversario - we all choose the flavor we like, and I respect that. No matter the designer or brand, there is always something that a 2-way loudspeaker can do that 3-way or more cannot do - and that is the beauty of the InCognito-X. You get the 2-way magic that cannot be had in any other combination, but you also get the full range and dynamics.
In this way InCognito-X cannot be compared to a 3-way at all, so you are right - Amati vs. InCognito-X would be an unfair comparison because a 2-way will always have some small advantage over a 3-way. A 2-way is less complicated and there are fewer wave interference and conversion issues, so they tend to create a more organic and whole presentation.
This is why I think some people simply just fall in love with 2-way monitors and can't get what they crave from 3-way speakers. If you ever get the chance to hear InCognito-X ... ;-) |
Dear Stereovox
thanks for your info, but I'm staying a satisfying Amati Anniversario owner, the right comparison is between Anniversario, Parsifal Ovation and (if I'm not wrong) PC Empress. Although in given chance I'll try to hear the ingognito X but 2way it's not for my primary system and I hope in any price to sell more units than B&W's or JMLabs.... |
Stereovox - many, many thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for in the comparison. Your description of the Princess stand mounts matches what I heard bang on. It sounds like the InCognito X will be a phenominal speaker - one more that I would love to audition. |
Hi Kops, I appreciate your writing me back and it gives me an opportunity to address something important: You are confused about the Peak models. InCognito-X is a floor-standing loudspeaker, 2-way, and is a model above the Princess. It is essentially a full-range loudspeaker. If you are interested to see a picture of it, please go to this link: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1153691838After some negotiation with the manufacturer and sacrifices here at home, I have been able to set the retail price of this speaker at $16,500/pair which is an amazing bargain, considering what you get. There is no way by any measure that these speakers are overpriced. They are utterly underpriced for what you're getting, and - while you are entitled to your opinion - please try to base it on some facts: 1) InCognito-X is a near-full-range, 2-way, floor standing loudspeaker 2) InCognito-X is finished like all Peak Speakers, with 1" thick solid wood 3) InCognito-X is not $25,000 - it is $16,500.00 I think - or at least I hope - that this will help you to understand better what the InCognito-X is. I also hope that it helps to calm your strong opinion about it. InCognito-X has got to be the most underpriced loudspeaker in the world, which is why I react when someone tells me that it is overpriced. Have a look at the link I showed you above and read up on the product. If you get a chance to hear it, and you consider the price ... I think you'll become a Peak Consult owner. |
Dear Stereovox,
the IngognitoX a base loudspeaker is 15.000$ or euro? right,
Sonus Faber Guarneri is 7500 euro and Guarneri Memento is ~9.000-10.000 euro.
I have nothing personal with Peaks, they are my favorites speakers after Sonus Faber, Verity, Dynaudio,ATC and in my humble opinion they are overpriced.
Just look and listen P.C. Empress and S.F. Amati Anniversario and Verity Parsifal Ovation side by side and regarding construction and sound and then decide , that was my proposition, not an attack.
It's my option to have my opinion and believe what I want but a real test head to head will be more enlightening.
Don't get me wrong but ~25.000 are a big amount of money and I will check every aspect and primarily sound.
So let us have our opinions I respect yours. |
By way of comparison it is difficult, only because there are the obvious performance differences (more output and much more low frequency performance from the InCognito-X), and obvious build differences.
In terms of presentation I would say that the Princess is somewhat demur in its rendering, whereas the InCognito-X has more sparkle and life.
Princess has this unspeakable beauty about it, but - like many of the beauties I became infatuated with throughout my life - just a touch distant and somewhat unobtainable. If you love torch songs, Princess is THE speaker for you.
InCognito-X closes the deal and brings you right into the harem's den, full of life and color and energy. In the right room (say, under 300 square feet) InCognito-X does it all ... even pipe organ. 300 square feet is fairly sizeable, though ... that's 15 x 20, and more than most guys have to work with - which means that InCognito-X would be a great choice for most audiophiles. |
Stereovox,when E-mailing me leave out the last"0".It's 7068!I am very interested in the El Diablo,but in all honesty would not be a serious prospect for a couple of years,as I am moving then.
Best! |
Stereovox - first, many thanks for the detailed information. I would really appreciate your opinions on the Peak Consult Princess standmounts compared to the InCognito X? What would the sonic differences be between the two? I mention the standmounts since the InCognito X are 2-way speakers as are the Princess stand mounts. Many thanks in advance. |
Sorry - I forgot to answer your query about tubes.
Because the impedance is so benign (see the email that I sent to you with the impedance and phase plot of El Diablo) all amplifiers are treated very gently and allowed to perform at their best ... no strain at all.
Depending on the size of your room and how much output you really want from the speaker, Diablo can get to extremely respectable levels with 15-20 high quality tube-watts. In a fairly small room you might even be able to get away with a sub-10-watt amplifier - but don't expect too much from the low frequencies. You may get extension, but you won't get the same kind of control that you'd get from a 100-watt Push Pull ... |
Hi Speedy,
Show systems can be hit or miss. It's very hard to get placement right within the time constraints of a show. At home or in the studio I tend to take many days and even weeks to dial in speakers, as I think many others do, as well. Show conditions are typically unreasonable environments to make good buying decisions, but we do our best given the situation to make things sound as good as possible.
As for the "Euro Offset" - it is challenging, but I have both negotiated with the manufacturer and taken smaller margins for myself (approaching chairity, in some cases...) to make the Euro less of an issue. Thus, if the Euro would actually fall back into place, our prices would remain more or less in line with Peak prices around the world.
Regarding the impedance of the Diablo. 7 Ohms nominal is also fairly characteristic throughout the band. Peaks are famous for very very linear impedance. I'll send you an impedance and phase plot for El Diablo to your sirspeedy70680@earthlink.net address so you can see just how stable and beautiful these speakers are, electrically speaking. |
I'd like to clarify my own remarks about the "overpriced" statement,by me.I ONLY meant this taking into account that the U.S. dollar is weak,and I believe that products,like Peak,coming in from Europe can be(not all,btw) very pricey as compared to other sourced products.They do seem to be nice products,but sounded a bit darkto me,when heard at the "Singer" demo during the Stereophile Show last year.It could easily have been the rooms/set-up.
Also---Stereovox,what is the minimal load of the fascinating El Diablo model.It is listed as a 7 ohm load,but what is the minimum,not nominal.Also,correct me if I'm incorrect,but it seems this is a full range design that can be driven by very low power tube amps.
Any comments would be appreciated,by me.
Best! |
Well Kops, believe what you want, you may even be able to fool some poor souls into believing that as well but the facts always proves itself. |
So jaded ... that you can at once insist that Sonus Faber is NOT overpriced and then level that criticism at InCognito-X ... why? Peak Consult is a long-established company in Europe, over 10 years in business. Per Kristoffersen is easily one of the most talented designers in all of audio, and his crossover designs and performance parameters have not been equalled by any other designer anywhere.
Peak speakers are built better than any other loudspeaker that you or I know of, perform beyond their price point by a tremendous margin - and yet, you make unwarranted attacks. You seem to know little or nothing about Peak, but you have such a strong opinion about them. Why?
What's your stake in this argument? Why would go go through so much trouble to defame a loudspeaker and company that you have no experience with or knowledge of?
Come to the show in Los Angeles and have a listen for yourself - at least then you might have something to say about InCognito-X. For now, it seems that you're just a little TOO aggressive for having no personal experience with the speaker ... seems almost personal.
Hard to understand, considering how amazing the Peaks actually are. |
ingognito X and Magico is the definition of overpriced speakers, regardless of performance.
But it's highend after all! |
Hey guys, Couldn't help but notice the discussion here. As the importer for Peak, I can tell you that extremely few loudspeakers are built as well with as many truly high-end components and materials. In that regard, by comparison, I think Peaks are actually underpriced. This may sound like hyperbole, and I understand that. But I know these speakers inside and out, and they simply embarass others costing much much more. Add to that the stunning technical measurements which no other manufacturer has yet been able to equal, and you've got a fairly unique package. THAT SAID, I want to introduce you to InCognito-X. It's hard to call a $16,500.00/pair loudspeaker a screaming bargain ... but this one truly is. It will stand toe-to-toe with whatever reference you can put up against it. Beauty and ease, effortless with an ability to throw vast soundstages and project convincingly 3-D images within. This speaker is a KILLER. I've just popped an ad up explaining in more detail, and I'll be demonstrating InCognito-X at the HE-2006 show in Los Angeles. If you're planning on attending, you can get an earful by visiting us at room 381 in the Sheraton Gateway Hotel. (more info: http://www.he2006.com ) AUDIOGON AD http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrfull&1153691838. |
Kops, I would own any of these speakers in a minute and in fact I do, my point is none of these speakers are over priced, they all have there virtues, my point is, to suggest that the Peaks are over priced is leading in the wrong direction, not only for the Peaks but for all these speakers. |
I had a brief listen to the Peak Consult Princess "stand mounted" speakers last week at Sound By Singer. They were powered with Tom Evans amps, CJ pre-amp and an Esoteric front end. The sound was eminently musical - very smooth and refined. In the setup I heard them, they lacked the last word in resolution or image focus, but what they brought to the table in ease of listening more than made up for it in my book. These are speakers I could easily live with, but that is based on my musical tastes.
I thought they were beatiful looking speakers too - the ones I heards were in a walnut finish.
I have heard the SF Amati speakers (another wonderful speaker), but have not heard the Verity.
I'm not sure if this helps you or not, but if you get the chance, the Peak Consult Princess are most certainly worth an audition. |
Dear Allanbhaganinfo the cost of the woofers and tweeters of all the above speakers does not justify the prices.
The sound maybe.
If you put side by side an Anniversario and the Empress and the Verity you will understand many things, if you listen them even more. So only by listening and knowing all the facts decide not by fireworks.
Amati has very special cabling with fusion of silver and paladium and you can find the same cable to use for speaker cable and IC, likewise the Verity has good components, symposium shelf to separate the 2 boxes etc.
Also Verity and Sonus Faber have some decades behind their labels and studio applications also, so there a lot of facts to see IMHO. |
All these are great speakers and the choice should be yours to make but for someone to say that the Peaks are over price is wrong, for instance, the Empress uses more expensive proprietary drivers from the same company that Verity uses as well as Sonus Faber, the Peaks use very expensive Stereovox cabling internally, the Peaks also use extremely expensive Duelund caps, then not to mention the 1" thick Rose Wood with fine joinery, if the Peaks are over priced, so are all the rest. |
I am using a pair of Peak InCognito's, which I would recommend over the Princess. I am listening near-field, and every time I listen, I just cannot believe the fidelity of these speakers!!!
They excel in resolution of micro-detail...instruments and backing vocals all have their precise location in space, and none smear with one another. A truly reference speaker. The only thing that they will not do, is play REALLY low. But then again, with super-low bass, you will have to do much more acoustic treatment of your room.
Of course, you must use great components upstream. The neat thing about the InCognito's is that their impedance curve [7 ohm, almost flat, never dips below 6.8 ohms] makes them perfect for OTL amps. I'm using Atma-sphere M-60 Mk. 2.2 mono-blocks [60 wpc], with an Atma-sphere MP-3 preamp, and the symmetry is perfect. Of course, I have done some tube rolling and other tweaks to get the fidelity to this high of a plateau! |
even better Amati Anniversario |
I believe you would do better with the Verity Parsifals.More airy,not as dark sounding.Don't get me wrong,the Princess is a nice,overpriced speaker.Still a nice product,but the Verity,JM Labs Alto and a few others are a bit better,IMO.
Best! |
