Great story Moebis!! He's still just as stubborn about tube amplifiers being the only amplifiers to use!LOL
I planned to try out one his units.I could never get anything setup concrete. He doesn't do the email thing very well. So I bought a unit else where.
I had to laugh at Mr.Sphere's comments about passives not being able to drive the cables... that's a pretty broad statement. With the right source some of these passives(TVCs) will spank an active all day long driving cables. Being he designs and builds active preamps..I'm not surprised at the negativity towards passives. Man.. this jet black background coloration is working for me.;-)
Good listening |
Hello Herman, I use the Burson buffer before the TVC and after my Dac. My Dac's output impedance is fairly high 2700 ohms. After talking with a few people, two being the owner of the Jensen transformer company and Jack of Eletraprint transformers. It was clear I needed a buffer in order to use the TVC without penalty. Now instead of the TVC seeing 2700 ohms, it sees 15 ohms input. The buffer from the specs is also capable of 12 volt output verses my Dac's 2 volts.When looked upon as a whole..from your description it is an active preamp in seperate sections. I sent this unit to an audiophile that owned a similar Dac and used the Django TVC. Before the buffer was added to his system, he got rolled off or dull highs , a flat soundstage and a over all thin sound. The buffer brought the highs up, opened up the sound making it fuller and more dynamic..from his description. So as you've said..the matching is critical. Guessing from some of the other posters description's..this may have been one reason the Passive or TVC didn't work in their systems either. |
I also enjoyed Hermans post. Though I haven't used a $5000 preamp at home. I do know what musical, dynamic and transparent sounds like. The TVC has been a revelation for me.
I also prepared my setup from the start by using a buffer between the source and the TVC. No worries of impedance or gain issues. In order for me to find an active that can match it across the board would cost thousands...so why bother?
Good listening |
Just from what you've told me. The TVC should work just fine with a 100 ohm input. Here's a FAQ's page from Promitheus on how TVCs work. Unlike resistive type passives a TVC will actually lower the output impedance and increase current drive from your source or BAM. Hearing the difference between it and a pot or ladder resistive attenuator is very easy. You get a fuller sound at lower SPLs with a TVC. I should have a Bent audio unit with Stevens & Billington TX102 trannies in for a comparison within two weeks. |
Hey Oz...yup I'm looking forward too it myself! I've found one owner of the Promitheus TVC that has compared it against a Bent Audio. From his post they sound about the same too him.
I'll see and hear for myself thanks to a nice audiophile friend who has many audio toys. If they do come up fairly equal..the Promitheus will be one of the best bargains in HiFi. For $280 plus $60 shipping it has shamed all the actives or resistive passives I've played with period.
Jsadurni,
The only resistive passive I've compared the Promethius too lately, has been the Noble pot in my integrated. It's not even close. The Noble pot isn't bad by any means. When compared to the TVC. It sounds out of focus and instruments and voices suffer from slight loss of depth and separation. Also the sound doesn't flow into the room as with the TVC.
What TVC have you tried in your system Jsadurni?
Another owner of this unit. Just posted a small review on another site yesterday of the Promitheus against the Luminous Audio passive Axiom noble pot/shunt and a AVI active preamp. Again the little unit came out on top in his system as well. I think the AVI is a $2800 active preamp. So if you only consider cost as premium sound ..you maybe in for a surprise. ;-)
I may try to compare it against a Bryston BP6 in a few days. From memory of hearing the Bryston active last week..it doesn't stand a chance.LOL |
Thanks Jsadurni ,
From what I've read so far..the PLC is slightly different in configuration from a TVC like the K&K, Bent, Django, Music First and so on. I would try a different version before you give up competely.
Good listening |
"I don't have a thimble's worth of his experience or knowledge, and he always seems to make very measured and reasoned statements. So, I'm sure there are very good reasons for what he says."
Yes I agree he is a talented guy, but so are the fellows that design the passive units. His reasons are stated above..He designs and builds active preamps.
Personally have no preference to amplifier design. As long as it suits my taste.. any design will do.
Thanks for the link Herman..never seen this site before.
Good listening |
Thank you Mr.Sphere for sharing. Maybe one day I'll need 30 ft cables..I doubt it..but who knows? I'll certainly take a look at your preamps if that moment arises. At the moment I'm happy with 1 meter cables and a passive TVC. On the other hand your amplifiers do look tasty.;-)
Good listening |
Jsadurni, you should be fine with a passive..just make sure the next one is a TVC not the PLC with autoformers. I watch movies with my TVC..no shortage in dynamics.Also from what I've read the PLC with autoformers doesn't electrically isolate input from output like a TVC. This means you'll have less noise filtered with the PLC. Give it another go..before you throw in the towel.
Good luck |
"FWIW, the task of the volume control is *not* to filter noise! I would suspect that there are other reasons for a preference."
Yes I agree, I suppose it is how one looks at it. I'm not designer like yourself,but don't you use something inside your equipment to filter noise or keep it to a minimum? Capacitors or something? If you did then your amplifiers or preamps would also do the job of lowering the noise floor..correct? This wouldn't be any different from a TVC having the same ability would it?
Having preferences is fine..I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm thinking seriously of buying a tube amplifier to run with the TVC when the moment strikes. One day I may want to mix it up a bit. It is always good to have different types of gear to swap out, when you want to hear music in another light. |
I wasn't dawging the PLC..only pointing out. One shouldn't confuse the two. Whether one is superior to the other is in the ear of the beholder. Hey Jsadurni..if the Promitheus doesn't work out for you. I'll buy it from you for what you paid for it. I already know the out come..once you get it, I'll have to pry it from your cold dead hands!LOL
Good listening |
Well I be Darn..Mikey I think he likes it!!! LOL
Good for you..have fun!! |
"In the world of high end audio, the idea is to get away from tone controls so as to get to the truth of the matter."
OK let's look at from another perspective. Since it's the goal of high end to get away from tone controls.. This will leave a lot of members here in the dust. Essentially every component is a tone control. All the way done to the tubes used in a selected piece of gear. How will we ever get away from tone controls? When every piece of gear is basically a tone control? No matter how High End you go...there will always be those darn tone controls. |
Mr.Sphere true this is a audio site, hopefully for all not just what's considered High end because it cost a certain price. Maybe we're thinking the same thing just from different perspectives.
I like absolute transparency not at the expense of being musical. I want to hear every change in the system. When I change tubes in equipment,cables,dacs,etc.. I want to hear it. I have achieved this without breaking the bank.
Every system has a flavor to it from the mixing of the components. Changing one piece will change this flavor.
I personally find it far fetched that any componenet doesn't have a flavor. If there wasn't a flavor for each component, we would all listen too and like the same equipment. I haven't heard a capacitor that sounded the same as another. I haven't played with them all..but quite a few. The same with tubes..come on..I know you have a favorite type tube for your equipment... most designers do. Give up the goods!LOL
Just look at the post here on the GON and what people ask for. It's not the sound of water I can guarantee that.
Maybe we should start another discussion. I like keeping you busy. ;-)
All the Best |
Pubul57, I understand where your coming from. I like the preamp to be as you describe.I can add my flavor in other parts of the chain.Even guys that won't admit it have a flavor they prefer.Whether SS or Tubes or anything in between.
Good listening |
I agree 4yanx the Bent NOH is a terrific unit! I for one have no interest in active linestages any more(no matter the cost). If it ain't a TVC..I have no use for it.
FWIW Peter Daniels of Audio Sector is working on a RVC unit. Hopefully he'll have it completed and tested by spring of next year. I may try one of his to get a taste of the RVCs. The TVC is here to stay.
Good listening |
Jsadurni, I like both units. I couldn't pick a real winner. Both units sounded about the same too me. The Bent was setup with 6dB extra gain. So it wasn't easy to get a volume match on both units. The Bent is the better built of the two..being all metal. Performance wise..dollar for dollar the nod goes to the Promitheus. At the price..it is unmatched at what it does.. and far beyond the price. I had communications with several owners and people that have tried one out. It may surprise some the preamps and CDPs direct that have been pitted against the little guy.
Modwright,SAS,Conrad Johnson 17LS, Copland, Loecsh/Weisner and Wright preamps,Audio Research,Wadia 860 and Levinson CDP straight into amplifiers. That's just a few of the ones I've come across...the list goes on!
If you didn't take my advice before Jsadurni and pick one up earlier. The waiting list is so long now..it's almost insane!.. 2 to 3 months at least.
I ordered two more, one for me and the other for a friend..it slaughtered his Eastern Electric MiniMax..you'll see I've sold it on Agon recently...these two are the Reference versions with fully balanced trannies,solid silver RCAs, metal top/bottom plates and a few other additions to my basic version. |
