Pass Labs INT 60 VS. Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP VS. Arcam A49


Tying to decide between the Pass Labs INT 60 integrated amp and the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP integrated tube amp. I currently have the Arcam A49 which is excellent but looking for something with even more detail. All three have many excellent reviews, looking for input to make a decision. I have Wilson Audio Sasha 1 speakers, an Arcam D33 DAC, Rega Apollo-R CD, Clearaudio Performance DC turntable with a Manley Chinook phono stage. 
kenepeters

Showing 8 responses by charles1dad

Unsound,
I’m not looking for another tube vs SS debate either. By now those number in the multiple hundreds. My point is that feedback from owners is significant and very valuable. Often times their actual experience with a product runs contrary to expectations based solely on test measurements. I see no rational reason to dismiss real life results because they violate preconceived beliefs.

No question good quality SS will work very well with the Sasha, actual listening encounters verify that certain tube amplifiers will not just "work" but succeed with stellar results. Bottom line  for me is that real world use/interactions takes precedence over measurements and test bench environments. Listening is the ultimate determining factor. 
Charles
Unsound, 
That's a fair point but I don't believe that Wilson would offer that advice in a generic manner for the sake of politeness and not wanting to offend. Given that they have used tube amplifiers during presentations and there's ample feedback from Shasha owners who've happily used tube amplifiers. 

I'm left to conclude that both tube and transistor power amplifiers can and have been used successfully.  As is always the case it is depends on what type of sound character and presentation a listener seeks. I'm well aware of the speaker's test measurements yet also recognize the very good outcomes attested to from the use of an appropriate tube amplifier in numerous systems. 

This and other forums are replete with experiences of happy Shasha/tube amplifier owners (and SS amplifier owners  as well).
Charles 
Wilson Audio representatives have told the OP that they believe the Primaluna Premium HP would be a good and suitable choice for the Shasha. I'd trust their assessment. I think that this would be a very natural sounding musical pairing. 
Charles 
Kenepeters,
On paper I’d agree with those who strongly suggest a SS amplifier given the load characteristics of the Sasha. However there’s usually more to the story. Some speakers are designed with the expectation that they’ll be driven by a transistor amplifier.

Will you be able to hear either amplifier prior to buying? Listening to an amplifier paired with the speaker of choice will answer all questions. The P.L. Premium HP is noted for high level built quality and excellent transformers. As some others have posted here I also find tube power amplifiers "generally" sound more musical, natural and realistic (with a suitable speaker match). My gut leans towards the Primaluna (Particularly with the KT 150 tubes). Without an audition the Sasha’s specifications suggest the Pass Labs amp the safer bet. Anecdotally I've heard the larger Wilson speakers with tube amplifiers and the sound was very good. 
Charles
Kenepeters,
Earlier this year someone named orionpcgames who owns Sasha speakers had a similar thread. His dilemma was Pass Labs 250s or Cary 211c push pull tube amplifier. He ultimately chose the Carys and he was "ecstatic "(his word of description )) with the results. He was suitably cautioned about this choice but did so anyway.

He may have been as happy with the Pass Labs if he’d went that route (who knows?). Just an example of listening results that are contrary to well reasoned caution based on known specifications.
Good luck,
Charles
John Potts as you say was a very good reviwer.  He had the ability to effectively discover and describe the essence of an audio component. I always enjoyed reading his work. I recall reading his reviews of Art Audio and Canary  amplifiers ago. 
Charles 
Sumac,
Yes, this is why I am such an advocate of the listening experience  (when possible). Very likely that the 16 watt SET amplifier has better quality power supply and output transformer than the 60 watt tube amplifier.  

Also very likely that the SET Art Audio would be considered a poor match for your speakers if judged solely on specifications. With the failure of the 60 watt amplifier what led you to try the subsequently sucessful SET? I happen to find measurements and specifications useful as a screening mechanism  but know they aren't capable of revealing the entire story as your experience confirms.  But you have to begin somewhere and listening isn't always an option before purchasing. 
Charles 
It's encouraging that Wilson Audio themselves gave a strong reply in regard to the P.L.Premium HP and didn't attempt to steer you towards SS amplifiers exclusively. This is a very good endorsement from them as they're obviously  intimately familiar with the Sasha. 
Charles