Axelwahl, I would have to agree that back then I didn't have a tool even remotely as accurate as the MintLp tractor I now use. Ditto for the phono stage. Tools I used back then would have been a paper tractor or the MFSL Geodisc - not exactly super accurate - and I admit to not spending inordinate amounts of time with cartridge setup.
Though to be fair, the MC's I used at the time were set up with the same tools and used with the same phono stage.
As far as the VTA goes, I was definitely aware of the +ve VTA. Garrott emphasised this requirement in the setup sheet that accompanied the cartridge. However alignment probably wasn't great to start with and may have gone out the window when I dialled in the extra VTA. Who knows?
I'll reserve judgement until I hear the P77 again. |
Hi Tobes,
yes, I think it'd be just good to get some other perspectives on thatsubject.
There is one thing that struck me (always trying to find some explanation) when a lot of these MM where in use NOBODY, but for a few audio enthusiasts, knew much about VTA, never mind the other alignment subjects. Might this just have contributed to some 'lesser' regards for those oldies?
A guy that spend big $$$$ (at the time) on an MC and SUT (A MUST AT THAT STAGE) might just have been more 'into it' all...
Of course phono-stages have improved a lot also. If it was not for all of that, including really crappy TTs, the CD would NEVER have had much of a chance and gone the way e.g. SACD is going. How else to explain it.
Back to your P77, according to the 'Brothers' (straight from the horses mouth!) that P77 needs positive VTA a-plenty!
That's why it can sound the way you describe it, if run on e.g. a level arm. Your exact sound description of to small an SRA!
Greetings,
Axel |
Axelwahl, given the recent hype regarding MM carts, I'm going to retrieve my 20yo Garrott P77 from my folks house (when I get around to it) - to see what the cartridge sounds like in my current setup.
To be honest I'm not overly optimistic that I'll be bowled over. I recall the cartridge sounded quite musical, exciting and full bodied - but somewhat big (and loose) on the bottom and lacking the refinement, nuance and imaging precision of a good MC.
I guess it won't cost me anything to experiment though. |
Hi Tobes,
oh yes, but as with all things audio, take that 'review/rave" with a pinch of salt...
It's a good cart, but you're not 'talking to angels' as yet with it :-)
I listen to a number of jolly good MMs (oldies) and they make that review a bit overenthusiastic in my view. It's sort of on the same level as the hype about the PW emanating from Ortofon's sales brochure...
Axel |
Shane, there is a well written comparison between the Jubilee and the Windfeld on the Polk Audio forum:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68614
Makes me want to upgrade from my Jubilee! |
So Raul
What recommendations do you make for MM cartridges that are readily available.
I prefer a full dynamic sound compared to the lean and bright variety. |
Thank you, Downunder
:-)
>>> Bottom line is I think the SPU is wonderful, but you need a 2nd cartridge that will be a bit more transparent when the recording warrants it. <<<
I was starting to get exactly THAT notion. It seems to explain (I'm a bit slow here, sorry) why so many commentators sport AT LEAST two arms and with cart(s).
I'm busy for (reasons explained) with a number of MM carts, and the same issue arises here also.
Now what's my next step? --- Go like Raul, who's excusing himself, that he ONLY can mount 10 tonearms/carts at a time?
Thank you for 'clarifying' that issue :-) ...
Axel
PS: As hard as I look, no way to get a second arm onto my SME-10... two cars, two arms, two carts, two... eish! |
Dear Downunder: +++++ " Looking for a new cartridge to put on my Phantom. " +++++
IMHO I think that you can find what you are looking for on quality performance through the MM alternative.
By coincidence Axel that owns the Windfeld it is trying with MM that through its MM time experiences prefer these ones to the Windfeld experience or other LOMC. A point of view that I share with him and many other MM owners.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Axel
Vtvu pretty much nailed the sound of the SPU compared to the Jubilee.
The SPU Royal GM is one of those wonderful warm almost fat sounding cartridges in the upper bass/lower midrange, however the replicant 100 stylus gives the sound nice extension and treble sophistication, say compared to the SPU classic GM which is a bit more direct but less refined.
Trouble is the SPU is too beautiful for some music as the music starts to sound a little homogenous. It is absolutely brilliant for anything from the 50's and 60's, small jazz ensembles, vocals and anything slightly thin - it adds nice body to the music.
The dyna XV-1 is more transparent to the source, slightly deeper/tighter in the bass and more extended in the treble.
Bottom line is I think the SPU is wonderful, but you need a 2nd cartridge that will be a bit more transparent when the recording warrants it. |
Hi Downunder
you say:
>>> If the Windfeld is more refined in the upper frequencies - ... <<<
That is the case, I might call more 'delicate' also, compared to a Jubilee which itself is quite good at that. The Windfeld also has better bass punch, not to forget!
I had been looking into getting an SPU Royal N or G, or a SPU Synergy. Could you give me some idea, let's say compared to your DV XV-1s? and/or Jubilee please?
How would you characterise the main difference?
Thanks,
Axel |
Axel, I have the SPU Royal G - use it on my Ortofon AS-309S. Looking for a new cartridge to put on my Phantom.
Taylor - My Jubilee is now at a very good home with my old VPI HRX. I guess the trouble with the Jubilee was that it was always being somewhat compared to my dyna XV-1, which it clearly is not quite in the same league.
However, my dyna XV-1 is sounding like it is getting worn out - hence looking for another cartridge - or get another XV-1.
VTvu - you have given me a woody. BTW, I am more like Charlie Sheen so I would try to play with all of them :-)
Your description between the SPU and jubilee is pretty much what I heard in my system except that IMO the SPU is a lot more musical than the jubilee.
I like the refinement of the SPU royal and the Windfeld has the same stylus.
I prefer the sound of the SPU on some records, on others it can be a little too much. Hence needing a slightly more open cartridge.
If the Windfeld is more refined in the upper frequencies - that would be perfect for my not so great recordings.
Utahusker - I have a Koetsu Rosewood and agree, it is a wonderful sounding cartridge. totally different to the jubilee. Again can be too much of a good thing on some records.
thanks all - I think I might just try the Windfeld |
I agree 100% with what Talor514 states about the Jubilee. I used it with a JMW9,Jelco 250st, and an SME 345. It sounded great with all three. I sold it to fund a Koetsu Black, which is also great. Maybe I'm easy to please. |
Thanks for the great analogy Vtvu! I have been using a Jubilee for about 2 years now and love it! I will probably get another one or upgrade to the Windfeld when the time comes. |
I have the Windfeld in my current analog rig (Merrill-Scillia MS21, Tri-Planar arm, custom phono stage). The sound is the best I have had. I also had the SPU Synergy and the Jubilee in the same system.
I would characterize their relative sonic personalities as follows:
- SPU Synergy: full body, warm, weighty, not quite a nimble and light, kind of like Angelina Jolie.
- Jubilee: lighter, more detailed, more ethereal, more air, not as weighty as the SPU, kind of like Katie Holmes.
- Windfeld: more refined than the other 2, more balanced (not tipped toward highs or lows), more timber-accurate (musical instruments sound real), more accurate soundstage presentation, kind of like Catherine Zeta-Jones.
As Michael Fremer said, the Windfeld does not have any obvious flaws. The best way to describe it is very balanced. But if you prefer the sound of the SPU then it may sound light weight to you.
You will need a good phono stage to get the most out of the Windfeld, but it is definitely the best I have heard in ANY system. For my taste anyway.
Which one you like will depend on if you are like Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, or Michael Douglas. :-) |
I couldn't be happier with my PW! I owned the Jubilee and find it hard to believe that you "didn't get into it". Is it possible that the Jubilee was not fully broken in? The PW does indeed improve on the Jubilee but I also found the Jubilee to be a very musical cartridge ... the PW does most things better and bigger! I'm using a Graham Phantom II with a "K&K maxxed out" version phonostage with the upgraded transformer. Hope that helps ... |
Hi Downunder,
yes I have heard it, I own one -- alas it is in with Ortofon for check-up/repair right now.
I had a thread on it, inquiring about its INDUCTANCE (not impedance). Ortofon does not measure this, they say.
I used to run it with an SUT also (FR XF-1), which prompted the inductance question due to primary trannie loading used.
Back to the sound, I would like to know what arm you will use with it. I had mine mounted in a SME V on a SME 10 'table.
Since you say you are using an SPU Royal, and have not mentioned "N", are you using a "G" head-shell Royal, not the one that goes into a 'normal' head-shell?
That would also mean a bayonet head-shell type arm i.e. more on the heavy side of it like SME 3009 or 3012?
The Windfeld with >13g mass is about a heavy as a medium weight arm (10 -11g mass SME V) will be fine with. There is a heavier weight for a lot of arms (also SME V) but I'm not sure that's always such a good idea.
The PW will sound more 'refined' than the Jubilee and a lot of other MC carts. It has a more 'balanced' sound -- not as 'jumped up' as some MCs can get. That's because of the damping system used.
It's not a 'lose cannon' or 'run away train' in the treble. For that reason it also prefers less loading (higher resistor value) 500 to 1k ohm and even no loading going into 47k is an option (YMMV).
This will give you some idea, and if you have more specific questions please ask.
Greetings,
Axel |
