Sthomas12321, I would appreciate if you keep me posted on how that dvd player does as a transport.
Also, transport can make a huge difference as I just experienced in my own system going between using Slim Devices Transported into Bel Canto DAC3 or using my Audio Research CD3MkII cd player, that blew the Trasnporter away basically, when used strictly as a transport. I've discussed it above.
I'll be looking forward to hearing from you again when you get your Oppo.
Thanks |
Yes you cannot get cleaner than clean but you might dirty the signal. Expensive cables use foamed oversized teflon to lower dielectric constant, zero crystal 7N silver or copper, double shileding (foil and braid), have capacitance in order of 5pF/ft and inductance of 0.02uH/ft. Stereophile that you mentioned highly regards expensive cables and I wouldn't say they are out of their minds. |
Some DVD players might be not "bit transparent" (with digital volume control etc) while some others like my Sony have absolutely crazy logic (other than that good player). Every time I send command stop, play, open it displays it for 5 sec before starting execution. At start-up displays "Welcom" for 10 sec - it drives me crazy. Check also how noisy it is. |
Even Stereophile says it as good of a transport as anything at any price, as long as you are using it as a TRANSPORT. My 981 arrives tomorrow. I am used to $3k-$5k cd players, Ill let you know how it holds up as a transport as that all I will be using it for. The only thing it has to do is deliver a clean signal to my DAC via hdmi, coax, or optical.Used with Legacy focus 20/20's(Ill use my paradigm 100 v.3 also have now) and a Bryston 9bsst amp.
I am suprised at the people that just dont get how high quality cheap players are now days. WAKE UP! Spending $3k and up for a cd player now days is rediculous, you are gaining little, if anything from much cheaper pieces of equipment. The only place you still cant cut corners is Speakers. Even cables are way over done. A clean signal is a clean signal, you cant get cleaner then clean.If you are spending more then $200 a pair on cables,you are out of your minds! |
If you use jitter rejecting DACs like Benchmark then DVD player is a good transport - excellent tracking (and cheap). |
OK, if you only need Redbood CD then you might seriously look for an older Esoteric, TEAC or other CDP known for their solid transport, to use with your DAC3, making sure you've got digital-out that matches the DAC.
Dave |
thanks Reubent
I only need a transport for redbook CDs. Have no DVD-As and only about 2-3 hybrid SACDs. |
Audphile1,
I've used my mod'd Oppo 971H as a transport and it is about the equal of the dedicated CD players and transports I've used. However, it is highly modified, so I can't compare it to a stock unit. BTW, the mod is so good that I didn't notice any improvement by adding an external NOS DAC.
In the past I've tried using a Sony S7700ES, S9000ES and NS999ES as transports and none of them equaled the performance of the dedicated CDP (used as transport) that I had in the house at the time.
If you really want a transport and DAC, I would highly recommend picking up a dedicated transport or high-ish quality CDP instead of a DVD player. In my experience, they sound better and are much less hassle in that they don't require any configuration, video screen, etc., and they typically load the CD much quicker.
However, if you really need to cut down on the total devices in your system, I understand the desire to combine CD and DVD playback into one device. But if the goal is to cut down on audio shelf real estate, maybe a quality mod'd player would give you enough performance for all types of shiny disc and you could replace both the transport and DAC with one box that has even more total functionality.
Enjoy,
TIC |
Wow...I'm surprised at the number of responses! Just got home and checked this thread and have so many answers already. Awesome!
What I was worried, but kind of thought this to be the case, is that Oppo's abilities are blown out of proportion a bit. We tend to get overly excited about a newcomer product. This happens often. Seems like Oppo's popularity as audiophile transport is a bit hyped.
I remember when I had Bel Canto DAC2 and was using my $60 Philips dvd player as a transport it was good. When I switched to Sony 7700 it was really a nice improvement.
When I auditioned Bel Canto DAC3 recently, I tried Slim Devices Transporter as a transport into DAC3 and it was good. but when I used my Audio Research CD3MkII cd player as a transport into Bel Canto DAC3 it totally blew away the Transporter in a performance as a pure transport.
I guess I was day dreaming when I was thinking that Oppo can provide adequate performance as a transport. I guess I'll have to research other options. Perhaps another Sony DVP-S7700 would be a good choice, except these things could be quirky with reading CD-Rs. I'll have to re-think this approach a little now.
Thanks to all who responded. |
Yes, I think that the higher the quality of the DAC the more it makes up for any shortcomings in the transport. My discussions earlier in this thread were all about feeding a signal to an upsampling to DSD DAC, with a very robust output stage and a zero-jitter clock (claimed by the maker and I'm waiting to see the test results).
Dave |
I have discussed this very question with several Audiogon members in private messages recently. My experience was the comparison between a modified Jolida 100A, stock Oppo 980 through a PS Audio Digital Link III, and the Jolida through the DL III. The Oppo alone was good, the Jolida alone was better, the Oppo through the DL III was even better and the Jolida through the DL III was the best. Each step was noticeable. I don't know for sure why the Jolida was a better transport but I suspect it has to do with the large power supply. What the Jolida-DL III combo brought to the table was spatiality, soundstaging, articulation and realism. So far, it is the best I have experienced in my home and I am content (for awhile!). I suspect that the Oppo is a decent transport but you can certainly improve upon it. The PS Audio Digital Link III is simply superb. The DAC makes all the difference. The transport helps get it to a higher level. |
While I appreciate all the things the Oppo does reasonably well for a very cheap price, I wouldn't recommend it as a transport. I recently compared the Oppo 970HD with an old Rotel RCD-971, both feeding a California Alpha DAC through the same coaxial cable, and the Rotel was the obvious winner, with better focus, clarity and weight; the Oppo signal sounded leaner, more artificial and less relaxed.
I can't understand why someone would want to use the Oppo as a transport in a high quality rig, like some Stereophile review suggests.
Well... to be true, the reviewer used the Oppo to feed high-rez material to a 24/96 DAC (something the old Alpha can't take); anyway, I wasn't particularly impressed about its performance with 16 bits material. |
07-17-08: Lngbruno said:
"This weekend I visited a friend and had a Bel Canto DAC 3 and Rega Apollo (for transport use)with me. He has the universal OPPO and when we did a comparison the OPPO sounded weak in every aspect of the listening experience. It was very noticeable and didn't require and straining to hear the differences. My friend is now looking for another option for his 2 Ch listening experience."
So, let me get this straight, you used the Oppo as a transport running through the DAC 3 and it wasn't even close to the Rega through the DAC 3?
Dave |
I purchased a Bel Canto DAC2 through an Agon auction about a year ago (got a great deal as I think I was the only bidder). At the time I was using a Resolution Audio CD-50 and a Linn Genki as sources. Got the Bel Canto just to try it.
I used the Linn as transport and spent a lot of time comparing all three dacs. I thought the Bel Canto had a more robust and lifelike sound than the Linn stand alone. The though Linn was too much cdp to just use as a transport so I sold it and went looking for an inexpensive transport. After much searching I bought the Oppo new.
Sonically, I could not tell the difference between the Oppo and Linn as transports feeding the Bel Canto. But I will say the Oppo isn't the most friendly operationally. I think dvd players in general aren't as friendly for music.
I recently sold the DAC2 as I don't really need two sources and the CD-50 is so much better than any of the others I've owned. I mean SOOOOOO much better, night and day.
If you looked at my threads you will see I frequently recommend the DAC2 as it does sound very good for the used price. |
According to Doug Schneider at Dagogo it makes for a poor transport, he mentions the Oppo in his Cambridge 840c review. |
Interesting and timely question. This weekend I visited a friend and had a Bel Canto DAC 3 and Rega Apollo (for transport use)with me. He has the universal OPPO and when we did a comparison the OPPO sounded weak in every aspect of the listening experience. It was very noticeable and didn't require and straining to hear the differences. My friend is now looking for another option for his 2 Ch listening experience.
We were both surprised since OPPO has had many very positive comments. In his system it didn't do well against using the Apollo as the transport. |
The Oppo universal player is good as a transport. Running its signal into a quality DAC can greatly improve its two-channel performance. My only problem with it relates to playing DVD-As and hybrid-SACDs. I've had trouble with it reading the correct layers when there's multi-channel SACD and two-channel SACD or CD. I've set mine up for two-channel preference, but it'll often read the CD layer when I want two-channel SACD. With the little tiny screen you basically have to blindly toggle around trying to find the right layer. It's really designed to be used in conjunction with a TV rather than as a stand-alone transport.
My Pioneer DV-58AV is much better in user interface friendlyness. I set it up for two-channel audio preference so now it always chooses the highest two-channel resolution option on any SACD. So, as a CD-only transport the Oppo is pretty darn good, but if you're into SACD then it may fight you and annoy you some. I'd recommend going a further step up to something like the Pioneer if you want a friendlier user interface.
I've got an expensive Playback Designs MPS-5 as my main digital source. It's got a custom, proprietery DAC, claimed zero jitter clock and really beefy output circuit and allows for digital-in from transports and other devices. When I use the Oppo and Pioneer as transports I get 90% of the improvement from the stock Oppo and Pioneer, which is to say it's a relatively huge improvement. Mating your Bel Canto with a really top line transport like an Esoteric (as in the MPS-5) will gain you more SQ than the Oppo or Pioneer, but it's only incremental. IME the big gains seem to come from the DAC. As you continue to improve your DAC you'll continue to gain with those basic transports.
Going from Oppo's basic transport to their midline or even to the Sony, I'm not so sure that you'll gain much. I'd focus on the user interface in these price ranges. If you go upscale, maybe look for a used Esoteric or an ond PS Audio Lambda transport. The transport IS important, but IME the DAC seems to be about nine-times more important, given at least a decent level of transport performance.
Dave |
