On The Feeding And Care Of Vienna Mahlers


As already you may have gleaned from several threads, I have fallen in love with the Vienna Mahlers during the 2006 RMAF, where I listened to them repeatedly and at length in the excellent Rowland / Soundings / Sumiko suite. At the time, they were driven by a Primare CD21 CD player, Rowland Concerto preamp, Rowland 312 stereo amp.

No longer able to resist, I decided to retire my Maggies IIIAs, and ordered a pair of Mahlers in Rosewood livery during late August, and have received them a couple of weeks ago, crated in their coffins. Soon after, they were hoisted up the stairs to the loft with the help of a stout hand-cart and of a 'few good men'--you know who you are. . . and thanks a bunch guys! Why is it that anything good has to weigh almost 200lbs?

Well, now they are all connected, via a set of emergency Monster speaker wires, while my trusted Cardas Golden Refs are awaiting to be shipped to Cardas for retermination. They are at the end of a fully balanced chain consisting of TEAC Esoteric X-01, ARC Ref 3, Rowland model 7M balanced (latest series made 1989 with trans-impedance modules and rear primary power switches). ICs are Audioquest Skys. Temporarily, I am running the Mahlers with woofers facing outward, speakers cantered in by perhaps 7 degrees. Speakers are approximately 22 inches from a half wall behind them, and are standing about 77 inches apart center to center. Because of the shape of the listening loft -- which has a passage on its right leading to the stairs -- i cannot center them evenly from the side walls: the front of the left speaker is 28 inches from the wall, while the right speaker sits 60 inches from the right wall. The listening loft is a carpeted area having stippled walls approximately 17 feet x 19 feet with a half wall along the long side where the system is situated. The ceiling is coffered with a max height of perhaps 12 ft. The half wall opens to an even larger area that extends downstairs to the house entrance. The carpeted floor of the loft is in turn covered by an extremely thick 9 X 12 ft wool rug. A couch sits close to the windows opposite the stereo.

At approx 60 hours of break in, the Mahlers were already making wonderful music; the treble opening nicely; midrange already solid and textured; the bass deepening; staging and imaging fleshing out. At 68 hrs some -- I trust temporary -- excessive warmth sat in. I can only guess about their sound once they stabilize, and only then I will write a full review. In the meantime I'd like to hear from other audiophiles about their experiences/opinions of the Mahlers.

Here are some possible topics for discussion:

Any experiences connecting speaker wires to Mahlers via maggie Pins? The socket on the 5-way binding post of my Mahlers is marginally too narrow for the Maggie Pins on my Cardas Golden Ref speaker wires. . . I can fit 1 connector out of 4 only.

Total speaker break in time, and expected performance/sonic fluctuations during break in.

The eternal debate. . . woofers out or woofers in?

Experiments with bass and treble management dip-switches?

Effect of front grilles on/off?

Ideal distance from back wall / side walls?

Ideal angling?

Amplifiers and speaker wires that in your experience match well or do not match well with Mahlers.

Things that in your view Mahlers excell at, and areas they may not do so well.

That's it from my end. . . . 'tis your turn now guys & girls!

Guido
guidocorona

Showing 15 responses by guidocorona

Hey Marco, sorry missing you as well! I agree completely about subs on Vienna speakers. In my view neither the Beethoven Baby Grands nor the Mahler remotely require a sub. . . . totally satisfying without one. By the way, last year's Soundings / Rowland / Sumiko suite had the same product lineup but being a larger suite, sounded even better than this years. For next year, Brent rainwater and I are already starting a groundsswell of Agoners to meet at the bar on Thursday evening at 7:00 pm for drings. . . hopefully to follow with chowdown somewhere.
Are you considering Mahlers or their upcoming reference-level big brothers for your system?
Hi Dave, unfortunately Soundings is in Denver and I live in Austin (TX). No budget for professional placement I fear. My case is going to be one of Do-ItYourself placement. Has Soundings published a placement methodology.?
Hi Marco, rest of system is TEAC X-01 Limited, ARC Ref 3, JRDG 7M monoblocks, Audioquest Sky XLR, Cardas Golden Ref Speaker wires, Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha on X-01, Purist Anniv on Ref 3.
Thanks guys, the speakers are brand new. Purchased them from Sumiko on accommodation. prob of course is that Sumiko is in Berkeley and I am in the middle of Texas.
I will probably switch places of the two speakers and have woofers pointed inwards by the end of the weekend. I will fiddle with detailed placement only after I have my Cardas wires reterminated and break-in more or less complete. No point obsessing while sound is still changing and I am using my standby Monster wires. Dave, what's the estimated break in time for your Beethoven Baby Grands?
Hi Marco, JRDG Model 7Ms are 1989 class A/B balanced vintage furnaces. . . not class D at all. They deliver a stout 350W into 8 Ohms and about 700 into 4Ohms; max continuous current is 50A and damping factor is over 300 between 20Hz and 20Khz. Quite sweet, but perhaps not the ultimate resolution and transparency by today's standards. By contrast, current JRDG lineup is instead completely class D. If you want a super treat, have a listen to the 312 stereo, which is one of the most likely candidates to become my next amp.

Dave, good idea, I'll buzz sumiko after completion of break in and will see what they can do for me. I have dialed 300 hrs on my break in tracking spread sheet, and it's telling me that I should complete the process just before Christmas if I keep it up.

Thanks Mike1000, what did you like better with the woofers facing out? Mahler driven by McIntosh must be wonderful!
Hi Micahel, could you please elaborate on 'better'. . . Could you describe the audible effect of having the woofers facing outwards rather than inwards?
Thank you Downunder, I definitely concur about sounding even better with front grilles removed. I am still running with woofers facing out. Tonight I'll try to reduce toein to just a couple of degrees: with about 7 or 8 degrees staging is very good, but speakers do not quite disappear from imaging. Does anyone know if woofer grilles are removable as well?
Just a small change and. . . Oh My God!

The Monster speaker wires I have been using 'temporarily' for the last two months are finally gone. I managed to fit my Cardas Golden ref speaker wires onto the Mahlers. , in spite of the Maggie pins on them being just slightly too thick. . . on a hunch I applied some 3200 grit Aluminum oxide sand paper and just a slight amount of elbow grease to a couple of the
most obsteperous pins, and. . . voila! No retermination to spades needed. . . Now the wires fit perfectly. . . and what a difference they make. . .
I have now just over 180 hrs on the Mahlers. I am operating them with woofers facing inward, and 12 to 15 degrees of toein. Still no spikes under them. . . . these will come into place after some more twiddling with placement. Glorious is the operative word. . . I
am now finally starting to hear that sound of music that made me fall in love with the Mahlers in Denver. Glorious tight and deep/musical bass (no bloat), a midrange to die for, extended treble without a trace of harshness, speed, delicacy, authority, solid imaging and staging.

In the meantime my Ref 3 has racked over 2,000 hours on its original set of 6H30s, and I was thinking to get new 6H30 tubes for it. I am
thinking about EH6H30Gs from the Tube Store in Hamilton (Ontario). Similar to the standard Sovtek, but with Gold plated contacts and cost $23 each. Anyone tried them? Can't
afford 6H30DRs at this time, and I wonder if the EH may be slightly higher grade than the Sovtek version provided by ARC. Any other suggestions?

Babybear suggests that a tube change on my Ref 3 may be unwarranted at this time, and I would get a much bigger bang for the same microscopic buck if I upgraded my home-builder-grade duplex AC outlet I use for the Ref 3 and the TEAC X-01 to an Oyaide R1, and perhaps the standard fuse on the Ref 3 to an Isoclean. Not a bad idea at all, as the junky outlet is starting to fall apart anyhow. Opinions?
Yes, if possible I will obtain a Sumiko setup. No intention of changing wires at this time. I have own these Cardas Golden refs for more than 5 years and have used them for all this time on Maggie IIIAs. . by the way, Cardas Golden Refs are the very speaker wires used by Soundings on the Mahlers at RMAF.

Yesterday, on Antonin Dvorak: Complete Piano Music, Inna Poroshina (Brilliant Classics), I could not detect any of the feared excess in the bass. Rather, bass was authoritative,deep, tuneful, quick, harmonically correct. I will do more listening/analysis in the next several days on different recordings.

Here's another question. . . has anyone added sand or other ballast in the Mahler's lower chamber as indicated in the manual? With what results?
Dave, thinking about it, it's quite possible that the speaker wires may have been the Black Oval 9s and that PCs were instead Cardas Golden refs. I should have taken notes at the time. . . but I regretably didn't. Pls let me know what you hear from Soundings.
Dave, anything new on your audition of the Analysis-Plus Oval 9 wires on the Vienna speakers at Soundings?
Thanks Dave. Since my last post, I chatted with Shanker at Soundings HiFi in Denver. He confirmed that Soundings used Cardas Golden Ref speaker wires at RMAF between the Mahlers and the Rowland 312. According to Shanker, this wire may be an ideal match between JRDG amps and Vienna speakers.
Ahem. . . what a coincidence MDHoover. . . just yesterday my Mahlers were professionally set up by Sumiko and by Rod Thomson of Soundings Hifi (of Denver, Co), 303-759-5505) using the Master Set iterative speaker placement methodology developed by Sumiko and adopted by Soundings. While the mahlers were excellent before the set up, they sounded truly marvellous afterwards, with amazing staging, imaging, top to bottom frequency extension, linearity, harmonic development, ease of listening. I do not believe there is such a beast as 'the best speaker', but I am sure glad I discovered them.
Oh yes, subwoofers end up firing out with speakers just over 10ft apart center to center.