Guido, you haven't been listening to Sumiko. There's no "ideal distance" from the back and side walls. You need to have Rod from Soundings over to position them optimally in your space. All your issues will magically disappear.
You might go ahead and burn-in your speaker cables. I'm not one to get carried away, finding that Kimber has some reasonably priced offerings that will work with your speakers. Thank goodness that VA takes responsibility for the crossover and there's none of that bi-wiring mumbo jumbo to concern yourself with.
BTW, what amp are you using?
Dave |
No, that Sumiko methodology is proprietery. If you bought new from a Sumiko dealer, then I think they'll do it free. If you bought used, then you'll need to find a consultant, most likely at a Sumiko dealer. I think you'll find it worth paying a fee.
One thing I know for certain, is that Soundings turns the bass speakers in toward each other. The do the same on the Straus. Also, the speakers are a good ways into the room in every set up I've seen by Soundings.
I can tell you that they use a Rob Wasserman CD, "Duos", and use the Jennifer Warnes cut of "Runaway Horse". The same cut on her album "Famous Blue Raincoat" won't do because it doesn't have the same bass content and the vocal isn't as well recorded. They move the speakers around until the female voice and bass come into balance, with great extension and a solid image. You've heard the result, but you haven't been through the progression, but you can still get pretty close if you remember how good they sounded.
Dave |
Guido, Rod suggested 200-hours to fully break in the Baby Grands. I'm at 100 and I'm feeling very comfortable. I'm also breaking in a Sumiko Blackbird cartridge, which has under 40-hours. This long weekend is helping a bunch.
Since those Mahlers are going to be in a reviewer's reference system, I can't imagine Sumiko wouldn't want them set up right. Give them a call. I'll bet that they can find someone near you to do the set up.
Dave |
Looking at pictures of the Soundings room at RMAF, the woofers are facting outward. See:
http://live.audiogon.com/i/rmf2007/h/1192929136.jpg
I guess the placement is room dependent.
Dave |
Yeah, Rod said that they switch around quite a bit, depending on the amp and whim. He hasn't really tried the OCOS, but want to try some as soon as Sumiko starts delivering.
Dave |
12-03-07: Tpy said:
"When Rod from Soundings set up my Mahlers he told me that whether the woofers face in or out is very room dependent. He ended up setting mine up facing out, and doing a few things differently than the way I had set them up. They sounded very good when I first got them but much better after he set them up. I add another recommendation for the Sumiko set up if that is at all possible."
Tpy, did you watch Rod do the set up? If so, isn't amazing how much the sound changes with very small moves?
I'm just amazed how few take the advice to get a Sumiko set. It's like we're talking to the wall, yet this is one of the biggest things I've ever seen to fully integrate a system. We're talking about gross changes, like woofers in or out, when it's little tiny moves that get everything right. That hump in the bass the Guidocorona notices might be dialed out with a 2" move.
Rod literally made my Beethoven Baby Grands sound twice as big, while keeping the midrange and imaging totally integrated. Even after 40-years of audiophilia, I couldn't have done it without Rod's help. I'd get the bass right, but screw up the mids, or vice versa. Even with his training and experience, it took Rod and hour and a half to set my speakers. I'd spent two months and had great mids and imaging, but there was still glare left in that totally evaporated.
Have Sumiko set your speakers, if at all possible. It's crazy to spend money on cables before you do that, IMHO.
Dave |
01-03-08: Guidocorona said:
"Yes, if possible I will obtain a Sumiko setup. No intention of changing wires at this time. I have own these Cardas Golden refs for more than 5 years and have used them for all this time on Maggie IIIAs. . by the way, Cardas Golden Refs are the very speaker wires used by Soundings on the Mahlers at RMAF."
That's interesting about the Cardas. Rod's going to lend me Analysis-Plus this weekend to try out. He's got the Black Oval 9s on the Mahlers in the showroom, as of Monday. I'll ask him about Cardas when I pick them up at the close on Saturday.
I'm anxious to hear what you think of the Sumiko set. Hope it happens. In fact, I think it'd be worthy of a review in the mag your write for. ;-) At least write a review here or pile-on to my review.
Dave |
Thanks Guido. I'll ask about Cardas, realizing that they may not have used those. Rod's raving about the Analysis-Plus. I'll give a report after I compare to my Kimber 8PR.
Dave |
No Guido. I'm waiting another week or two until they get in the OCOS, then I'll compare the Cardas, A-P and OCOS before I buy. That's a week or two away since Sumiko just inked their deal with OCOS.
Dave |
03-11-08: Guidocorona said:
"Ahem. . . what a coincidence MDHoover. . . just yesterday my Mahlers were professionally set up by Sumiko and by Rod Thomson of Soundings Hifi (of Denver, Co), 303-759-5505) using the Master Set iterative speaker placement methodology developed by Sumiko and adopted by Soundings. While the mahlers were excellent before the set up, they sounded truly marvellous afterwards, with amazing staging, imaging, top to bottom frequency extension, linearity,"
Bro, I told you so. Ain't that amazing??
Tell me, did the side woofers end up in or out in your setting?
Dave |
