The black box or super black box will lower the noise floor and yield a bit more headroom (depends on how many drivers per speaker). But if you are trying to get more punch in the bass at high listening levels that would be a characteristic of tubes in general. They sound a lot more powerful at low to very high mid levels of listening. Approaching the highest levels the lows are the first stop gaining but the mids and highs go a little further. I experienced that with both the V70SE and the V110.
That said what tubes are in your V70SE now? How many hours do you have on the amp? Most tubes need a good 100hrs of burn in. Some are as high as 400 hrs. Watch the bias for drifting. I always saw when driving the tubes hard the bias drifted the most upwards. I personally kept the bias all green with 6550's - KT88's - KT90's and KT120's. BTW the V70SE will have no problem with KT120's or KT150's. You won't get any more power per Andreas. You'll just hear the sonic differences. You might like the KT120 or the Ei KT90 type 2 or 3. |
To all participants of this discussion. (If you are still here :). I switched to Octave V70 SE from a very good solid state integrated and I wish Octave had the same deep and punchy bass! I feel lack of bass especially when I listen to vinyl. I have Linn Sondek LP 12 with Adikt MM cartridge. While V70 ES has outstandingly detailed and crisp highes and great mids, bottom part needs more weight IMO. My question: does V70 needs more burn in time to show all it's force or may be Black Box can fix it? Or solution in subwoofer?
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Black box or SBB for Octave v110 powering focus 260 speakers? |
With the V70SE there will be no increase in power using the KT120's. But you will be able to push them a little harder than most other tubes. As far as the sound difference the KT88 will be a warmer sound and the KT120 will be more forward in the mids and highs with a little more punch in the bass. That being said I don't know which KT88's Octave is using today. My V70SE had SED KT88's when I got it almost 3 years ago. |
Xti16, One more clarfications before decide the purchase. What will be diff b/w KT88 and KT120? Only the power diff. or character? I am plan to purchase v-70se. So, I can ask to fix the tubes at factory itself. Tks |
Rabnani - I don't think you would be able to choose which tubes come with the unit other than EL34 6550 or KT88 for outputs. When I got the V70SE it came with SED EL34 or the SED 6550 or SED KT88. Since they are not made any more I would be only guessing what manufacturer Andreas can get today. I think the input 12ax7 is the Sovtek 12ax7lps and the drivers are Tung Sol 12at7 re-issues. At least that is what both my V70SE and V110 came with.
As far as trying different tubes it is best just to buy and try them for yourself. My personal favorite tubes haven't been made since 1959 (Tung Sol 6550 solid black plate for outputs). Now as you change input and drivers the sound of the outputs will change too and you just have to find the right combo that suits your personal preference. So far I have 10 different output tubes - 9 different drivers and 10 different inputs. That is an awful lot of combinations. |
Rhmmmm - Make sure your room can handle the C2's. I had the C2's in my home for 9 days. The problem is my room is 13' X 26' with the speakers on the long wall (can't change that) and because of the somewhat nearfield listening position it was a huge wall of vertical sound which I wasn't used to. Now comparing the original C1 to the MKII/Sig they sound much better (clearer and believe it or not less nasally) at lower listening levels. When I got the Sigs I was able to compare them side by side for about an hour as the originals were traded in. The originals sounded better and better when you turned them up where the MKII/Sig sounds great at the lower listening levels along with the higher levels. |
Xti16, To be frank I have used only SS amps all my time also no knowledge in tubes. Please suggest me below...
-Input suggested tubes & co (stack unit comes with what tube?)
-Driver suggested tubes& co (stack unit comes with what tube?)
-Output suggested tubes& co (stack unit comes with what tube?)
I know the tubes selection depended on own taste but here in my region not easy to try diff. tubes. Hence, I need to purchase the unit with right tubes form dealer. Thanks in advance your feedback. |
I have a V70 SE with black box using KT88 Gold Lion re-issue power tubes. I run it into Dynaudio Confidence C1 (original mk1). I use a Meitner MA-1 DAC or a modded EAR 834p as source. Speaker cables and XLR interconnects from DAC are both Nordost Tyr (mk1) while Luminous Audio Silver Reference from the EAR. I'm extremely happy with my setup. When moving to a larger space, I am considering Dyn Confidence C2 MKII or Signatures and will use same amp. I hardly ever turn the volume knob past 9 o'clock. |
Forgot to mention I own quite a few tubes Like the original Tung Sol solid black and grey plates (my favorite) SED EL34 - 6550 - KT88's - Gold Lion KT88 re-issue - Ei KT90 type2 and 3 - KR Audio branded Tesla KT88's - Gec/MO KT88's and EAT KT88's along with some 'little' tubes.
I would steer clear of the Tesla and Eat tubes. I have heard those work most reliably with a 450 plate voltage where the V70 has a 540 plate voltage. I did hear that after losing 4 out of 7 EAT's and 1 Tesla. |
Rabbani - Best tube?? Which tube?? Input (12ax7 qty 1) - Driver/inverters (12at7 qty 2)- Output (qty 4). Any or all tubes will make a difference in sound. Which tubes are in yours? Are you to wanting to change the sound? If so in what way.
My V70SE came with SED KT88's for outputs and all SED input and driver tubes. Others I've seen had Sovtek 12ax7lps for an input and Rca 12at7wa's for driver/inverters. Even though I'm no big fan of the Tung Sol KT120 you might be. For me I found I need to change both the input and drivers to make the KT120's sound pretty good. I like the Rca 5751 (lower gain) triple mica black plate for an input or a Telefunken 12ax7. But for drivers I like the Mullard CV4024 or the Telefunken 5965 (12at7 long ribbed plates not short plates) for the KT120's. Again I found the KT120 to be a bit on the forward/bright side and changing those 'little' helped tame the sound for my tastes.
BTW Andreas Hoffman (owner and designer of Octave) states the KT120 works fine in the V70SE. |
Hello All.,
Thanks for your suggestion and Please recommend me the best tube for v-70se? Becoz I am not tube guy also no knowledge on that lines. |
I owned the V70 with a Black Box. It was clean and powerful, but I did find them a bit too pristine, going from Naim I missed the excitement.
Currently using Vitus SS-010 and have been very satisfied with it on all fronts.
Source is dCS Debussy, speakers Living Voice OBX-R2 and Harbeth M30s
Recently put a W4S STP-SE preamp to front the SS-010 and with hugely satisfying results. Added PRaT to the Vitus. |
Rabbani - my room is 12 X 26 with my Dyn C1's on the long wall. Actually the V40 is plenty but if your like me I'll take any little improvement. I also have a Rel B3 sub crossed over at 34hz. Just to add what the C1's can't do. |
Thanks Xti16. Whether this v110 is enough to run with my room size of 10x14? Need any sub woofer? |
Rabbani - The V110 is a modified V70se to add a higher (switchable) plate voltage to the output tubes. I've had the V40 - V70se and V110 in my home. With each step up you get a little more 'control' of the music. The V80 is a different beast. It has much better transformers and uses a lower gain input and driver/inverter tubes. I have not had the V80 in my home.
Octave is great match for Dynaudio's. But I will say the TS KT120 tube is a disappointment at least for me. Too bright in the highs and a little too forward in the mids (after break in). Put warmer or more laid back input and driver tubes and the KT120 sounds better to me.
To me the V70se and the V110 are very similar with more control going to the V110. Agsin the V110 does have a switch on the back in case you want to run KT88's or 6550's. |
The V110 is a sonic match for Thiel CS2.7 or CS3.7 loudspeakers. |
Dedicated Audio is selling a show demo V40se in black for $4195. |
Xti16,
How is your new integrated amp of V110? what is the tube now using with this? Understand that you are using Subwoofer with this amp, is it for stereo mode? if yes, any specific reason. Why am asking becoz am interested to purchase this amp. Currently I owned pass amp but is not enough power to drive my Dynaudio speakers. My other equipment's are Dyanudio crafft speakers, modwright oppo player and siltech silver cables. The room size s 10x14 (in feets). I listen jazz and blues. There is no dealer available in my region to take demo. Appreciated your detailed recommendation. Thanks.
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Ah Mick from Quintessance Audio. I bought my Rel B3 from him. Good guy. Not too far from the Edens expressway off Dempster st. Funny I almost bout some Sonus Faber Cremora M auditors from him but decided on Dynaudio C1's. Later he picked up the Dyn line and Focal. After I bought my Octave V70SE he picked up the Octave line. Mick has a fine brick and mortar store where NextLevelav is by appt only and works out of his home. |
Xti16,
Thank you for the great info. I am located in NW Indiana and I work on the south side of Chicago. I spoke with the people at Dynaudio and they referred me to Quintessance Audio in Morton Grove with regards to Octave Audio products. |
Beatlebum - I would have to say do not expect any discounts on a new Octave. If you do get one great but don't expect one. Pre-owned on the other hand is a different story. Octave does come with a 5 year warranty. When you order an Octave it is built in Germany and takes about 4 - 5 weeks. |
Where are you located? In the USA the distributor is Dynaudio North America. As far as I know they are only sold through retailers. My local dealer is NextLevelav located in Bartlett Illinois who I would highly recommend if you have no local dealer. |
Xti16,
Thanks again for the info.
My speakers are rated at 87.5/1W/1M. That said I am interested in the V40 SE and I'd probably end up running it with KT88's.
Do you know of a distributor or vendor that you could recommend? |
Beatlebum - At those db levels the V40 would be fine. Like I said you get a little more control as you move up the line. My speakers are Dynaudio C1 sig rated at 85db. If your speakers are more efficient that is a plus. The Octave with EL34 tubes have less power and is better with 6550's or KT88's. You can run the KT120 in the V70 but I am not sure about the V40. BTW you will not get any more power out of the KT120 but you will be able to push them harder. The plate voltage of the V70 and V80 is 540 where the V110 is switchable between 540 and 620. Not sure but I would guess the v40 has the same 540 plate voltage.
I highly recommend the black box mainly because it lowers the noise floor and gives a bit more headroom. |
IME,
the Octave integrated amps are sonic matches for Dynaudio, Thiel & Joseph Audio speakers. |
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
I typically don't listen at very loud levels (75 to 85 db) and so I'm wondering about the V40 SE and V70 SÉ's performance under these conditions. |
I have demoed a V40SE in my home - owned a V70SE and just recently upgraded to the V110. A very good friend of mine owns a V80. They are all great integrateds. Soft start extends the tube life and they all have protection against output tube arc over that is second to none IMO. I have had several tubes arc over in the last few years. I do a lot of tube rolling. The only downside there is the input and driver tubes are recessed and hard to swap without removing the cover. Cover removal is easy with the V70/80/110 but difficult on the V40. Don't let the power specs deter you. There is very little difference between all 4. I personally think the V70SE is the best bang for the $$. They all will give a little more control in the sound as you move up the ladder. You can also add the black box or super black box depending on your current speakers. The black box adds 4X the capacitance to the Octave where the super black box adds 10x. So since you have monitors like me the super black box is overkill.
Any specific questions ask away |
