objective vs. subjective rabbit hole


There are many on this site who advocate, reasonably enough, for pleasing one’s own taste, while there are others who emphasize various aspects of judgment that aspire to be "objective." This dialectic plays out in many ways, but perhaps the most obvious is the difference between appeals to subjective preference, which usually stress the importance of listening, vs. those who insist on measurements, by means of which a supposedly "objective" standard could, at least in principle, serve as arbiter between subjective opinions.

It seems to me, after several years of lurking on and contributing to this forum, that this is an essential crux. Do you fall on the side of the inviolability of subjective preference, or do you insist on objective facts in making your audio choices? Or is there some middle ground here that I’m failing to see?

Let me explain why this seems to me a crux here. Subjective preferences are, finally, incontestable. If I prefer blue, and you prefer green, no one can say either of us is "right." This attitude is generous, humane, democratic—and pointless in the context of the evaluation of purchase alternatives. I can’t have a pain in your tooth, and I can’t hear music the way you do (nor, probably, do I share your taste). Since this forum exists, I presume, as a source of advice from knowledgable and experienced "audiophiles" that less "sophisticated" participants can supposedly benefit from, there must be some kind of "objective" (or at least intersubjective) standard to which informed opinions aspire. But what could possibly serve better as such an "objective standard" than measurements—which, and for good reasons, are widely derided as beside the point by the majority of contributors to this forum?

To put the question succinctly: How can you hope to persuade me of any particular claim to audiophilic excellence without appealing to some "objective" criteria that, because they claim to be "objective," are more than just a subjective preference? What, in short, is the point of reading all these posts if not to come to some sort of conclusion about how to improve one’s system?

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Showing 3 responses by lonemountain

BTW, I reread the teo_audio post, wow what a great read. I would have never expected to read something like that here. I found it very insightful in bringing the two worlds (the scientific world and spiritual world) into a complete thought.

Many involved in the creation of music know about the emotional communication that music (and other forms of art) brings to the table (no LP pun intended). These thoughts are impossible to quantify or objectify. Yet, they are real enough some devote their lives to it (musicians) and others (engineers) devote their lives to helping musicians get the "sound" they hear in their head on a record.  These engineers are often the true blood brothers to audiophiles, as both share a deep love of "the sound of things".

Brad

Forums are quite useful in educating oneself.  By reading, one can learn what's important to a majority of the posters and apply this to your own preferences.  For example, you might be interested in a turntable, By reading you might determine what a good place to start.  While not everyone agrees on XYZ model,  all three are discussed most often, I can look at those first.  If you want a "better" turntable, reading the posts on turntables can educate you on what the step up brands are and what might make sense to focus on. 

Brad     

I am somewhat different from most who post here as I import and wholesale gear to professional engineers who record for a living. Measurements play a role in confirming what you think you hear or pointing out what you didn't hear.  Most who’ve been in the business full time know that they hear things they cannot measure and vice versa. Understanding these limitations of measurement AND the limitation of your hearing is the key. Neither will be right all the time and a mix of both usually is best.

 

Brad

Lone Mountain/ATC USA