Ooops...Demian not Damian...passion got in the way.. |
Correction..comparison to the Marten M amp only applies to its price, massive power supply, and output, not its sound quality. |
Be aware also, that GaN transistors are used to correct for flaws in Class D amps that switch modulate at 300khz to 500khz. |
Give me a break. I have owned the Nuforce REF 9's and was a Nuforce dealer in 2005-2006 and have known Jason for years and their current technology and new switching amp is way beyond Nuforce.
GaN? I could care less. Its all about the music first, not the hardware. |
Also, the recent review in Totally Wired is one of the best amp reviews I have ever read on a Class D design in 20 years, and would put this amp
right up there with the Marten M amp and the Kaluga. |
Ooops...I jumped the gun on the specs regarding PWM that the Nuprime has the highest switching frequency at 700kHz. I was incorrect. My apologies for the slip. As George has already pointed out the Technics SE-R1 switches at 1.5 millionHz over double the Nuprime but after comparing both pieces, the Nuprime is a superior design with higher power output and far more efficient and runs cool. I thought Class D has evolved to the point where heavy amps are a thing of the past. So Technics puts out a Class D amp that weighs 119 lbs., runs hot with three heat sinks and four vents on top. Thats not very good engineering compared to Bel Canto, Mola Mola, and Nuprime. The Technics looks more like a hybrid AB/Class D amp. |
lol's...mijostyyn. Cheap Garbage? Sounds like you don't want to leave the 20th Century. Designed for high profit? $8K for the pair of Nuprime and $17K for the Technics? Yeah,right.
three-easy-payments..not a sales pitch at all. I sold my Nuforce REF 9's in late 2006 since the sound quality in the upper bands was terrible and the amps got so hot at times that I slightly burnt my hand one night when the amps went into overload and shut down, saying to myself, this is crap, never again. I never had interest again in Nuforce until two weeks ago, after waiting for months for Dave Belles to release his Virtuoso line, which is delayed over and over. I got tired of waiting for Godot. When I decided recently to explore Nuprime I was stunned that one of the top three circuit engineer's in high end audio during the past forty year's, Demian Martin from Spectral, is with the company. My conversation just days ago with Nuprime, I learned that Demian has been an ongoing consultant, but in the case of the Evolution One it goes much deeper. Demian is the co-designer of the Evo One and was part of the engineering team.The interior is so clean and organized that it reminds me of his board layouts in the Spectral Preamps he designed. If it wasn't for Demiam being involved, I would have no interest, and Demian has been my number one choice as a designer for the past thirty years. |
bigkidz and shertzy...The Evoultion Ones take a very long time to burn in, a good 1000 hours before they sound their best. Which does not surprise
me since Demain Martin from Spectral is co-designer of the amp. Spectral has a policy going back many years and through today, that they burn their amps in 1000 hours before boxing them and shipping off to their dealers. |
I checked the specs. The Cherry amps are powerful and I've been aware of the company for many years, and six years ago I spoke to the owner, forgot his name, but I must say he is first class. Very positive friendly attitude and I sensed he really cares about performance value first over high profits. Again, what surprised me about Demian Martin, of all people, to be a co-designer of a Class D amp, and that his reputation back in the 80's and 90's for designing some of the best solid state Class A amps
on the planet, would even think of getting involved in Class D, is a sign that the tide has turned big time, and does not surprise me at all that Totally Wired described the Evolution One sound quality equal to the best
Class A amps with a liquid smooth mid-range of tube amps. Demians' magic touch. |
Back your boats up for a moment. The focus is on Damian. Back in 1992,while coming back on a plane from Chicago from a business trip, I spotted an ad in the Seattle Times classifieds of a brand new in the box
Special edition Denon CD player, a version that was not available in the U.S., the DENON GL 2560 SE. The unit weighed 38 lbs. and there was an American version that weighed 25 lbs. The unit was being sold by an asian phile who was from China, and he bought the piece in Hong Kong.
The moment I got off the plane I rushed to a pay phone and asked him to hold it. In the late afternoon I went to the bank and took out $800 cash and when I arrived at his home, the gold colored unit with rosewood panels was a looker. This was the first time I experience Damians magic. The unit was hooked to a Spectral DMC-10 preamp and John Curls' monster Parasound HCA-3500 to a pair of Acoustic Research tower speaker's. I took a number of CD's including Jazz at the Pawnshop and the sound was so smooooth and rich it took my breath away. The unit retailed for $1100.00 and paid $600.00. When I got it home and hooked it up to my Carver components, it sounded sterile and that rich full mid-range that I heard at the sellers home was not there. I called the seller up and asked why it sounded so good..he said " its the Spectral ". George, I could absolutely care less of those who have their heads in the GaNges river, my focus is on MUSIC and nothing else. There is no logic that the Technics has the advantage at 119 lbs, especially due to the fact that the Evolution One has Damians' magical circuit work that has made him a living legend. By the way, I still have the Denon in storage, and twenty eight years later it still works. |
Thanks MrD. point well taken. This old Scorpio at times finds it hard to control my emotions due to my intense nature but I'll try to keep it under control. |
Zzzzzzzz..George, you got a leak in your boat. The rapids on the GaNges
river can be a little rough this time of year. I could care less if it switches once an hour. ITS' ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC FIRST OVER ANYTHING ELSE. By the way, have you ever heard of Demian Martin, cause you sure don't give him the credit he deserves'. Check out the gold DAC with the 24 kt gold plaque on top with Demians' signature on it in the DAC section on the Nuprime site. Looks like a gem. I just may buy that puppy.
|
Of course switching is a relevant factor, but the fact that Demians' finger prints all over this design is an indication that is an exceptional piece.
You cannot name one single engineer at Technics going back to 1980, that has designed high end components on the scale of the Spectral pieces designed by Demiam Martin. If that were the case, they would be way ahead of Accuphase, and that will never happen and wouldn't surprise me at all that Accuphase is exploring the Class D route. Facten, regarding my zeal for Belles, that was my last straw effort to stay in the
A/AB camp, but after experiencing my second hernia injury in recent months, and having surgery next week, I can no longer lift the heavy stuff. Wake up and smell the coffee and accept the fact that we are now in the 21st Century and the doors have already opened to NEW AGE AUDIO and this old A/AB technology is collecting dust. The ongoing perception in recent years that moving forward with Class D, lightweight designs is a venture we all look forward to, and Technics could've just as easily designed a lightweight Class D amp with GaN transistors with an excellent power supply as the Evolution One.
You would be better off buying Brunos' excellent Kaluga's also at $17K..
Technics makes outstanding direct drive turntables, but the fact that the companies engineers lack the ability to design a lightweight version of
SE-R1 tells me they missed the mark. The ping pong game continues...
Musicphile vs.Technophile.
|
Shertzy..just curious if you burned in the Evo's between 500 and 1000 hours which I was informed by Nuprime that's the time needed for the amps to reach their best performance. Also, what Preamp and digital source did you use with the Evo's. |
Not just a rationale, common sense. We are finally at the point where the science of Class D technology has finally reached the same level of performance equal to the best Class A/AB amps on the market. No point in going backwards if you can get the exact same results from a 20 lb. Class D amp vs. a hot running, suck that power out of the wall, A/AB amplifier. |
I just recently sold my current system and I plan on purchasing a used
Spectral DMC-10 that has been recently serviced and recapped in excellent condition. I could care less if it comes with an RC.The speakers in my new system will be the ELAC FS 249.3's with the jet 5 folded ribbon AMT tweeter.The best tweeter I have ever heard but I still have not decided on a digital source since I'm exploring streaming options. I don't care for the current solid state preamps on the market today. Not nearly as refined and smooth compared to Demians' designs. |
mrdecibel...I sent off an email to Demian Martin through the Nuprime site and just spoke to John Casler and he will forward it to Jason Lim to send to Demian regarding questions of the compatibility between the older Spectral Preamps and the Evolution One. I'll post Demians' response when received. Also, the DMC-10 matched very well with the HCA-3500 that I experienced back in 1992. |
George, again....I could care less regarding the topology of the Technics. If a designer can get it right resulting in outstanding performance from a light weight, well designed Class D amp, than its completely pointless to justify buying a 119 lb amp if there's no performance differences between the two. Are you a Technics dealer? |
Oh take it is junior...again, when is the wedding? I promise to bring a big bag of rice. Do you prefer regular grain or Jasmine? |
I read reviews on Audioshark of the SE-R1 by audiophiles who attended AXPONA and other shows and they were not impressed enough to buy the piece but thought the amp sounded good but did not knock their socks off. Technics is not high end and never has been for over forty years and no way is on the same level as Spectral, Boulder, Krell, Rowland or Levinson, so don't try to sell us that the SE-R1 is up on the same loft as those great brands. If your going to invest $17K into an amp then you better make certain the performance smacks you in the head like a grand slam, if not your buying fools gold and you'll wind up selling it on Audiogon. |
The best component they make is their turntable's which has been their foundation for fifty years. |
Phew! Your a shipwreck..So I pointed out Technics has super high switching thats all. I never said anything about its performance. Since you have no clue what high end is, and your engaged to the SE-R1, could you please let us know the date of the wedding? |
mrdecibel..I neglected to ask Demian if the Preamps he designed stopped with the DMC-10 or the DCM-12 ? Different forums I've been to go back and forth that either Keith or Demian designed the DMC-12. |
My behavior is only based on your silly perception that the SE-R1 is high end, which it is not. Why aren't you comparing it to other world Class D amps, which you won't is puzzling to me, all you are doing is focusing on the tech side and nothing else assuming their design results in state of the art sound. Have you read the remarkable review on the Totally Wired site? At the end of the review there is a link to many other Pro and Audiophile reviews that all have the same consensus that the Evolution One is the best Class D amp on the market.
" The Evolution Ones' are giving us the best of sound quality attributed
to Class A or Tubes with fluidity, ease and open nature".....
Totally Wired |
With a statement like that Ihasaguy..its obvious your not an Audiophile
since you have no clue of the current advancements in Class D technology. I hear you save a lot of Radio Shack coupons and I just heard
their having a 50% off one day sale tomorrow on their " state of the art "
Receivers that would be perfect in your living room. Better get there early so you don't have to stand in line. |
Can't stop laughing at the "shill" comments since you ignore why I focused on Nuprime in the first place. I could give a rat's butt about Nuprime. It has nothing to do with the name or the company whatsoever.
My only interest is Demian Martin. If I found out that Demian was on the design team for the SE-R1, I would be all over that amp like stink on a monkey. As many are aware, Demian is the number circuit designer in the country given his reputation back in the 80's and early 90's for designing the top solid state Class A Amps and Preamps. Just one on the many innovations that Demian developed, that was a first in the industry, is the circuit board material used in the Spectral amps and Preamps that Spectral has an exclusive, due to their contract with Dupont. That yellow/gold material is polysulphone which is known for having the lowest noise levels against any other circuit board material outside of solid gold.
I have been aware of GaN transistors for five years since at that time I posted a comment on a thread on Gon back then, my comment was, "Whoever comes out with a transistor that has very high heat resistance is when tubes will be a thing of the past ", then further searching on the web I came across a GaN article. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the GaN transistors were developed around 2013. The fact that they switch ten times faster then Mosfets is remarkable. Just because Technics implements the GaN in the SE-R1 doesn't mean the automatic result is
world class state of the art sound. I have spent some time on YouTube listening to the piece and the R-1 through my Altec Lansing processor and my Koss Pro AA headphones, and came to the same conclusion as the Audiophile's on Audioshark who listened to the amps at the shows. The amp sound is on the colored side, warm, relaxed but does not have the dynamics of the best solid state Class A amps on the market. If one is not concerned about weight or whether an amp is Class D or A/AB and your going to invest a whopping $17K, You would be better off buying a Spectral, Luxman, or Accuphase amplifier that would blow the SE-R1 right out the window. |
atmasphere..I appreciate your positive post. Of course I was wrong to make that statement which was based on the Totally Wired review where the reviewer states'.... "the higher 750mhz switching sets a benchmark for Class D.." surprised he didn't do his homework. You mention " digital still continues to improve " which puzzles me. Class D r&d started back in 1958 then in the early 60's Sinclairs' Class D amps would blow up due to unstable switching, then as we know Spectron came out with a Class D amp in 1974 that made its way to CES with positive results. Class D amps are pure analog amps, but would be considered digital if the incoming signal routes to a DAC to convert the signal, then that would be a digital amplifier. Since D is just a category as Class A, AB, H, and G.
|
twoleftears...how about..A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O....
Now that's a lot of amps for discussion. |
Actually, I have met some very nice troll's especially the Irish one's
who are very generous. In fact, last St. Patricks' Day, I had a troll couple and their kids over for dinner and they cooked the corn beef and cabbage, best corn beef I ever had. |
Wow! George is back. I thought he left town. Very disrespectful to atmasphere. During the seventeen years as a member, I have never come across a member like you with such a childish temper.
|
Oh, and the Evolution One... would more than likely blow that Elephant
out the window as well. |
Class D's "place in the hobby" is now at the stage where its starting to take over and dominate the industry due to the fact that more than ever before, that many A/AB amp companies are now producing Class D amps achieving the same results and they had no interest going that direction ten years ago. The Evolution One, the Kaluga, the Bel Canto Black, the Marten M amp, the Cherry amps, are world class performers just to name a few . " it is not bias, just the search for great audio"
Sorry mate, Class D great audio is already here. Its over. There are dozen's of remarkable outstanding reviews on these well designed components all over the world, the evolution of this technology during the past five years has moved so fast which we all hoped for ten years ago, that these components are now truly high end designs. I have never attacked anyone first from my end, never. The attacks always come at me first, and I roll over for no one. And during the past seventeen years as a member, I have never once gone to another thread and attacked the OP if I thought his or her topic was absurd, false, or ridiculous. And once the first attack happens, then others join in on the dog pile. Very immature. Behavior of high school kids.
|
select-hifi.." was still stuck in my memory " ..know exactly what you mean. Sticks to you like glue. |
tjassoc..the Merrill Veritas amps are pricey and I have no idea who the engineering team is behind those amps. But with Demiam Martin involved
with the Evolution Ones, is why I'm purchasing the amps in the near future and us older guys are well aware that Spectral Audio was the Rolls Royce of high end back in the late 80's. Demian Martin is way above Nelson Pass as a design engineer. Read the Totally Wired review of the Evolution Ones to get a full insight of remarkable these amps are. |
bill_k...good point which is quite common with reviewers who also happen to be dealers. The link at the bottom of the review has other reviews that are very positive as well. The board layout of the Evolution One is very well done, well organized in the different stages and very clean. Typical of Demian Martin. |
Off to the hospital to have my second hernia surgery. Get back to you great people in a few days...Cheers |
facten...I only trust what I hear. I mentioned earlier that I once owned the X-1 Preamp that was a factory reburb. Absolute mint when I received. The price was really low. Paid $ 2500.00. At the time I also had Parasounds former flagship the PLD-2000 and the Parasound HCA-1500 amp, Since the X-1 was already burned in, my impressions weren't that great during the three weeks I owned the piece and sold it for $3K. The X-1 was warm and relaxed, but the Parasound was much faster, more dynamic, with a larger sound stage. The X-1 was not even close to the Spectral DMC-10 I listened to years earlier, lacking that very rich, very smooth velvet midrange that is all to rare from a solid state. The DMC-10 dynamics and sound stage were excellent as well. teajays' recent thread on the Coda 07x preamp that it surpasses the earlier Spectral models is a bold statement, but doesn't surprise since Eric Laachi was on the design team with Nelson Pass at Threshold for years as we all know. If I had to choose between Coda and Pass Labs? Coda hands down. |
@bigkidz...what preamp was your friend using with the Evo's ? |
