NOS DAC's without any digital filtering?


How are these DAC's able to perform as well or better than DACS that use filtering to diminish aliasing effects? I understand that there are some who believe that the best sounding DAC's in the world are NOS/non-filtering. How is is this possible?
robertsong

Showing 7 responses by zd542

"How is is this possible?"

Its simple. Sound quality is subjective. We all like different things.
"NOS DACs are the closest to analog sounding in the digital world."

How do you go about making that judgment? You make these type of statements all the time, and can never back them up with anything. Its just one dumb statement after another.
"09-22-15: Roxy54
Chill Zd, it's just his opinion."

Normally I would agree, but the last thing he wants to do is help anyone. He makes ridiculous claims that he can't back up and pushes them off as facts, and when you question him, he doesn't give an answer and then does the same thing in another thread. Here's an example from a thread about choosing a dac.

"
08-16-15: Coli
Actually, older DAC tends to sound significantly better than modern DAC, especially if it's R2R and limited upsampling (or better yet NOS)."

"08-16-15: Arsh
Thanks Coli. This is getting confusing. Are you suggesting that my old TriVista would still be competitive with today's DACs? I guess the only way for me to know is an A-B comparison in my system. But I had assumed that new ones would easily beat mine. Anyone?..."

"08-16-15: Coli
Yes, do A?B comparison. There are some really high priced snake oil DAC out there so be careful."

"08-17-15: Arsh
Coli, which ones do you consider "snake oil?" Thanks."

"08-17-15: Rhanson739
"Coli, which ones do you consider "snake oil?" Thanks."

"08-19-15: Coli
Snake oil DAC: PS Audio Directstream "

"08-19-15: Coli
Actually, there's plenty of high end DACs that sounds no better than cheap AV Receivers."

"08-20-15: Rhanson739
Coli,
So why didn't you mention those, as well?"

"08-21-15: Zd542
"08-19-15: Coli
Actually, there's plenty of high end DACs that sounds no better than cheap AV Receivers."

I'd like to know as well. Its not often that someone takes a high end dac and compares it to the dac in a mass market receiver, while in the same system. I'm sure everyone here would find the results of your comparisons to be valuable information. "

"08-22-15: Rhanson739
I doubt that we will get a legitimate response from Coli/ilok regarding his comment.

Coli is mad that the Directstream didn't work out for him, and is now spewing his vitriol for all things PS Audio at every chance he gets. In another forum, he called PS Audio a "dishonest" and "disreputable" company, even though he never tried to work things out with the company.

Classic case of projection. Coli can't accept responsibility for his own situation, so he one denigrates the company and product as being responsible for his "suffering"."

"08-22-15: Coli
Seriously, try Onkyo reciever/processors, they sound better than most $2000 DACs.

High priced DAC are scams unless you go for those custom R2R NOS Dacs.

Although NOS is coming back in the main stream again, Marantz AV8802 uses "super slow roll off", which is very close to NOS or is basically NOS."

"
08-22-15: Coli
Here's another tip, look up the chip the DAC uses, if it cost under $10, you should pay at most $500 for it. Eg: Burr-Brown, Sabre, AKM. You can get the same sound out of consumer AV receiver/processors (if you want XLR) for far cheaper, plus you can go multichannel processing.

Onkyo and Marantz are just so far ahead of DACs in terms of sound quality and bang for the bucks.

Also, avoid all FPGA DACs, those simply sound incorrect. Maybe they'll fix it in 10 years with firmware upgrades, but you'll be able to buy them dirt cheap by then.

If you want things to sound better, invest in balanced power and a reclocker. Once you got those 2, every DAC based off of $1-$10 chips sounds the same."

"08-23-15: Arsh
Thank you, Coli. I have not listened to those units. But it seems there must be other factors that influence sound, like circuit design, power supplies, tubes, parts quality, etc?"

And that's just 1 example.
If you're not talking about me, it must be EBM. It took me a long time to figure him out, but he's usually just kidding. But I know what you mean, its hard to tell. In hid defense, he'll immediately apologize if you are offended by anything he says.
"09-24-15: Coli
And yes, Zd542, the Directstream sounded horrible. The market price for it just keeps going to down reflects that. $2950 and no buyers. "

I never asked about the Directstream. A lot of other posters have asked you questions. Why not answer them?
"09-25-15: Coli
I don't see any questions directed at me in this thread?"

You may have missed them. Here they are.

"08-16-15: Arsh
Thanks Coli. This is getting confusing. Are you suggesting that my old TriVista would still be competitive with today's DACs? I guess the only way for me to know is an A-B comparison in my system. But I had assumed that new ones would easily beat mine. Anyone?..."

"08-16-15: Arsh
Thanks Coli. This is getting confusing. Are you suggesting that my old TriVista would still be competitive with today's DACs? I guess the only way for me to know is an A-B comparison in my system. But I had assumed that new ones would easily beat mine. Anyone?..."

"08-16-15: Coli
Yes, do A?B comparison. There are some really high priced snake oil DAC out there so be careful."

"08-17-15: Arsh
Coli, which ones do you consider "snake oil?" Thanks."

"08-19-15: Coli
Actually, there's plenty of high end DACs that sounds no better than cheap AV Receivers."

"08-20-15: Rhanson739
Coli,
So why didn't you mention those, as well?"

"08-21-15: Zd542
"08-19-15: Coli
Actually, there's plenty of high end DACs that sounds no better than cheap AV Receivers."

I'd like to know as well. Its not often that someone takes a high end dac and compares it to the dac in a mass market receiver, while in the same system. I'm sure everyone here would find the results of your comparisons to be valuable information. "

"08-23-15: Arsh
Thank you, Coli. I have not listened to those units. But it seems there must be other factors that influence sound, like circuit design, power supplies, tubes, parts quality, etc?"

I don't know how you could have missed all those.
I can't help but think that, back when NOS dacs were current production, audiophiles were not too happy with CD's sound quality. It just seemed like everyone wanted a new format. By comparison, it seems like audiophiles are much happier with Redbook today than they used to be.

"Is an upsampled 16/44.1 file just as good as as "hi-res" file of the same sample rate when using a NOS DAC? No advantage at using a "hi-res" track at all???"

There's a difference. You can't get more than what you started with. When you start with 16/44 and upsample, its a matter of processing. Thats what changes the sound. Its just like using an eq or tone control. With a hi res file, you start with more information in the file itself. That's why the file sizes are bigger for hi res music.(assuming the same format and compression, if any). Think of hi res as going from 720 to 1080 in video.