audioconnection: I'd guess the tubes are at least 10 years old but have not been used in 4-5 years at all. The Schiit Loki looks good and not expensive but wondering if I need that if I'm getting an FM/Receiver with bass and treble adjustment?
yogiboy:There is a set of RCA inputs marked "phono" on the back of the LS16. The lack of tone controls may be why the bass did not sound all that great when CD was run directly into the LS16. I hope that the receiver I'm getting will resolve that issue.
Thanks for the replies guys. |
atmasphere, that may have already happened. With just a moderate increase in the bass setting of the Onkyo unit the bass was very good. The AR preamp manual also says sound quality is best if the tubes have been on for an hour.
The speaker manufacturer recommends the speakers be out from the wall a few feet. The cables are 8 feet long (and probably cost more than my previous 'stereo'.)
Since I am going to get a radio receiver anyway I may see how that works running the CD and phono through it and then to the preamp. I'll experiment with different combos with the preamp. Unfortunately this system is at my cabin which is an hour away, so it will be this weekend before I have a chance to test various setups.
I really do appreciate all the advice especially since I'm not a true audiophile and too cheap to dive in with spending more money. |
Thanks guys.
mecryn, I checked the speaker cables and they are in phase.
Speaker position is a problem. I do not have a dedicated room for them. I have them 8 feet apart and a couple of feet out from the back wall. They are more than 5 feet from the side walls but there are no other options.
If I run the CD and phono directly into the preamp there is no way to do tone control. I could get the unit recommended above for that but I'm trying to keep this low budget.
yogiboy, thanks for the clarification on the phono inputs. The cheapest of those phono preamps is $175. I still need to buy a radio tuner as well.
I'm pretty sure the previous owner ran the phono through the Onkyo home theater unit
I know all it sounds crazy to cheap-out on an expensive system like this but I'm not an audiophile (yet) and I would like to get all this running for as little cash output as possible. |
No plugs in the bass port on the back even though the designer (I've talked to him via email) says they can help in some situations.
lowrider, cap = capacitor? I will check them. I can see down into the preamp easily. Everything in there looks brand new. All of it looks brand new on the outside except for some scuff on the speaker cabinets.
It will be this weekend before I get back to my place to test all this. |
Tried two CD players. The one that came with the system is an Arcam. Very basic, don't know anything about it. The other is a basic Sony. They sounded the same.
I am starting to think that speaker position and possibly the fact that all of this stuff had been unused for a few years are all part of the problem.
When I first assessed the system I had the speakers in the middle of the floor a few feet apart. My wife thought the bass sounded fine but it seemed 'thin' to me. Once I got them positioned more reasonably, let the system warm up and played them for a while they did sound a lot better. And again, I'm not an audiophile and I may just be used to stuff with too much bass.
With the bass turned up a little on the Onkyo home theater system everything sounded awesome. I sat and listened to several albums of different types. When I went back to my Bose bookshelf speakers with an old 25 watt Toshiba receiver they sounded pretty bad in comparison whereas they sounded fine before I got this high end stuff.
This weekend I will fiddle with positioning, run the CD back directly through the preamp and see what it sounds like.
I am still going to get the Sony FM/Bluetooth receiver since I want Bluetooth capability and radio anyway. If I decide to get rid of this system I can still use it with my Bose bookshelfs.
Have to admit though, now that I have this stuff and have heard what seems to me like quality audio, I'm kind of getting the audiophile bug a little bit. I've already got several hobbies I obsess about and spend too much money on so I don't think I'll ever be a fetishist with this stuff but the sound is addicting. |
atmasphere, I appreciate the advice. I love music, rock, blues, some classical, various genres from the southern US. And I've had some exposure to high end systems. In the 1970s my uncle's McIntosh system with Klipsch speakers. During college with my roommates NAD, B&O and Nakamichi system with Dahlquist speakers. So the tendencies are there.
Probably my biggest issues are time and location. There is no room for a system of this sort in my home. And I just don't have enough time for good relaxed dedicated listening. The system is currently in my small (1000 sqft) log cabin about an hour from home. Fortunately that is where I usually do have time to relax. Unfortunately my wife does not really care to sit and listen to music like I do. So when I do, it is usually at low enough volume to allow conversation.
glennewdick, after pricing all this stuff it is a great temptation to sell all of it. But this is a weird situation. This came from my wife's wealthy cousin who moved out of his house into a penthouse apartment. He had an estate sale and basically got rid of everything. He invited cousins to come get whatever they wanted. My wife's sister and her husband grabbed this system having no idea what it was. It has been sitting in their basement for two years. They live down the road from my cabin and when my crappy system started to fail they told me to take this system and use it if I wanted to. So technically it isn't mine and if we did decide to sell it I think the cousin who owned it first should get the money....family! |
Thanks djohnson54, I do think that was what was happening.
On another forum, not really an audio forum, I was told that I could not run a combo tuner/receiver/amp through the LS16 preamp. But, the LS16 (I've determined that mine is the MKII) has a set of RCA inputs marked "Processor". That is what I ran the Onkyo home theater unit through. Is there any reason I can't use the Sony tuner/receiver plugged into the "Processor" inputs to get radio and phono (until I purchase a dedicated phono preamp)? In other words, I know it sounds okay to my untrained ear, but will it hurt anything running a 100 watt receiver into the LS16 preamp?
Sorry about all the stupid questions but this high end stuff can get overwhelming. |
Thanks guys. I think I'm finally getting my head around all this and it is starting to make sense. I'll spend this weekend working on all of your recommendations and listening.
I sent a picture of the speakers to Aerial Acoustics. The owner/designer (Michael Kelly I think) replied and said they were 7Bs. |
mecreyn wrote:
"2) If the receiver DOES NOT have pre-outs, you will have pull the signal from a tape out and route it to a regular input on the ARC. If this is case, DO NOT use the processor loop on the ARC, as the processor loop removes the volume control from the circuit and will result in full volume going to the speakers with no control from the receiver or the pre-amp. In this case, using the tape out from the receiver, the ARC would be the volume control. "
Okay, that makes some sense now. When I had the Onkyo home theater unit running through the preamp processor loop the volume control on the preamp does not work and the 'volume' read-out on the Onkyo showed the volume in negative dB. Max volume (I never went there) would have been '0'.
Again, thanks to everyone. I can't wait to get back down there to listen to this system again.
Also, no internet at the cabin. Barely get a cell signal so no streaming services available. |
My wife likes about half of the music I like. I have a much broader range of tastes. When we're at the cabin I have music on around the clock. She will tolerate just about anything I play but she just prefers the volume to be at what I call conversational level....where you can still talk at normal level and be heard over the music. She doesn't mind higher volumes if she is actively doing something else in the room.
Her hearing is better than mine. I have some loss from rock concerts, shooting and operating loud equipment when I was younger and stupider.
For 'real' dedicated listening I like the volume a good bit higher but I'm not a volume junky in the that regard.
As for WAF, my wife gets a pass here because she has accepted a whole lot of my other more intrusive hobbies. I can't complain. So I'll have to pick and choose my dedicated listening time.
The thing that really kills me is that my daughter and her husband will be moving into _my_ cabin in two weeks for six months while their new home is being built. This is going to limit good listening time to just about zero.
I have racked my brain about where to put the system in my house. There just isn't any place where it will fit within the space and the decor (WAF). |
I'm afraid I may getting the audio bug.
Just after I typed my last response I noticed that the love seat in our TV room at home is pretty ratty looking and if I threw it out there would be room for the system in there. It probably isn't ideal. It is 10' wide and 20' long. One of the walls is exposed brick. The ceiling is 10'. The system would have to go on the narrow wall and the 'listening chair' would be all the way at the other end, nearly 20' away.
But, I'm seriously thinking about doing this at least until my daughter moves out of the cabin.
I will run it by my wife this evening. |
Thanks mcreyn. My wife has given me the nod so I'll bring the system home in a couple of weeks.
Just want to say thanks to everyone for all the help. I spend time on a number of technical type websites. Some of them are not so friendly especially when you're a noob asking stupid questions. It is refreshing to get good, friendly, non-condescending advice on a technical website and I appreciate it. |
Just bought an open box Art Pro Audio DJPREII phono preamp for $35. |
Another question: If I decided that I wanted a subwoofer (I doubt that I will), where would the output for that be? The Proceed amp has only two (R&L) speaker connections. |
Thank you. But remember I’m new to all this.
The Proceed amp has posts for spade terminals, a + /-, on left and right.
The subwoofer, I’m assuming, would have a single +/- input. So what you’re saying is that I’d run a speaker cable from the left or right speaker output posts on the amp (over the speaker’s spade terminals) to the subwoofer. So which speaker output on the amp (left or right) would I use.....or does it matter?
EDIT: Never mind. I see that many subwoofers have left and right speaker inputs and a single left/right RCA for low level input from preamp. So I'm assuming you'd just piggy back over the speaker wires at the amp and run them to the subwoofer.
I guess I'll have to make sure the subwoofer can handle the 250 watts from the Proceed amp.
Still hoping not to need a subwoofer. |
"You mentioned that you’re using balanced cables from the LS16 to your amp, so if you decide to get a subwoofer connect it with RCA cables from the RCA outputs labeled "Main 1"."
That makes sense. Thank you.
"It appears, though, that your main issue with the ARC preamp is the apparent lack of bass. From your descriptions of your prior systems, I’m wondering if it might be an issue of what you’re used to. "
I think that is very possible. My cheap-o home theater system is bass heavy too and not in a good way. Same thing in my truck, which has a nice OEM system in it but it is also bass heavy. I think I’ve just grown used to it.
Also, my first impression of the system came with me standing a few feet in front of the speakers with them just a few feet apart.
So I’m hoping that’s all it was. I also noticed that in reviews and descriptions of the Aerial Acoustics 7B that the woofers are described as "long throw" or something like that which makes me wonder if they will seem to have more base if I can get a little more distance between them and the listening position.
I’ll be going down this weekend and can’t wait to take a fresh listen to the system and try to approach it without bias from my previous low end systems which I’m avoiding this week.
Once again I really appreciate all the fine, common sense advice I’ve gotten here.
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I should probably ask this question somewhere else but when I click on "Start a new discussion" I get this: "You are currently not allowed to do that."
Not sure if I've done something wrong or exceeded my limit.
Anyway I have found an ACOUSTIC RESEARCH TELEDYNE SYNTHESIZED TUNER T-06, new in the box for under $150.
Is this worthwhile? I can find any number of tuners for $50 but this one looks like a deal but I have no real idea what it is. |
Thank you Mark. Looking at the Acoustic Research web site I started to wonder if I was equating them with Audio Research. Now I know. I will avoid it.
I am now looking at an Audio Dynamics T-200 from the same place, also NOS. I’ve read some decent reviews on it.
I’m also looking at an old AccuPhase T-101 on eBay. It looks like these usually go for around $300. Currently no one has bid on it and there is no reserve. Reviews for these were good in their day. I’ll keep an eye on it.
Again, I’m not that concerned with the quality of the radio we listen to since that is mostly just background listening rather than serious listening. On the other hand it would be nice to have something that somewhat matches up with the system.
Going down to the cabin today to mess with it all and will bring it home where I can start to make a more serious assessment. |
Here is an update:
I brought the system to my house and threw out an old love seat to make room for it.
The room is 10'x20'. The system is on a short wall at one end and my listening chair is on the short wall at the other end, in other words I'm listening at about 17 feet from the speakers which are about 8' apart and slightly toed in.
What a difference this makes. More than enough bass now. No subwoofer will be needed.
Also, the soundstage (as I understand that term) is much improved. At the cabin it was okay but there was a very tiny sweet spot and because the hearing in my left ear is worse than the right I had to face the system at an angle to the left or the soundstage was very 2D. Now, in this room at home where I am a good 6 feet further away the soundstage is very discernible and the sweet spot does not seem to be so tiny. The bass is now full and rich and there is a thump to it. The speakers are about a foot out from the back wall and closer to the side walls than at the cabin. As mentioned, maybe the corners help. I can hardly believe the difference.
Thanks again for all the advice.
Also, I'll probably skip buying a tuner since I do not listen to the radio much at home. All I need now is a phono preamp. I probably am not going to spend much on that as the TT is nothing special and I don't see myself getting much into vinyl.......but the new copy of Astral Weeks I bought on Friday sure does sound good (I used the Onkyo home theater pre-out as a phono preamp but left the Onkyo at the cabin.) |
I have to admit I just bought a junk phono-preamp. The TT is also fair at best. I'll play around with my records a little bit and see if I want to go that direction.
Anyway, another question, I have found a subwoofer that was with another system this same cousin had. It looks like the system was Rotel components with Bowers and Wilkins speakers. This subwoofer is a B&W ASW 600. It is powered at 150w.
The question is should I even bother? It is free but I'm not sure I need it at this point.
Maybe it would be nice for lower volume listening?
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Update: Against advice I bought a cheap-o phono pre-amp so I could run my turntable which is old and nothing great with thin and built-in RCA cables. I figured the cheap pre-amp would about match the TT.
It did not. It was pathetic. Low volume compared to CD, etc. Thin bass.
Running the same TT through my old 1980 receiver/tuner and bookshelf speakers sounded better than running it through my high end system with this cheap pre-amp.
Running the TT through the Onkyo home theater system and then into my high end system sounded much better than this pre-amp.
I sent it back.
I'll order one of the one's recommended in this thread. Still not high end by any means but certainly in line with the TT I hope. In truth, it sounds pretty good running it through the Onkyo but I'm not interested in having the bulk and complexity of the Onkyo in my system. |
There is something wrong. It is the junky phono pre-amp. Remember, the TT sounded fine when I ran it through the Onkyo home theater unit and when I ran the turn table through my 40 year old reciever.
Better pre-amp is on the way. |
I am going to pass on it. I made spikes for my speakers, the stands were already there, and I feel like I’ve got them positioned well and to my untrained ear this system now sounds incredible. Tonight I played newly purchased remastered CD versions of Dark Side of the Moon and Steely Dan’s Aja and I’m just blown away. I feel like I would be happy listening to music I didn’t like on this system as long as it was recorded and produced well.
Having said that, the B&W sub would probably sound better than any sub I’ve ever listened to. But definitely do not feel the need for it now.
Side story: If you remember I got the system I have out of my brother-in-law’s basement. He got it all from a wealthy cousin who pretty much gave away everything in his house before moving into a penthouse. When my brother-in-law took this system home he thought it was just a typical audio system on steroids and then found he did not know how to hook it all up and didn’t have anywhere to put it. That’s why he gave it to me. Well, there are more B&W speakers in his basement (which is reminiscent of the Temple of Doom. If I can find the other B&W wall speaker I think that I could put those together with the sub and the Onkyo home theater unit and get a pretty nifty system that he could use and have space for. (The Rotel component system got carried away by his son-in-law). He’ll be happy with it as long as it is loud when you turn it up. ;-) |
