2. amps-preamps
  3. 137027-115924

Non-audiophile needs help with older system.

I recently inherited a number of 10-15 year old high end audio components. I am not an audiophile but do appreciate high end sound. I do not have a dedicated room for this system. But, it was free and I'd like to figure out how to use it without spending a lot of money on it. I am not looking for audio perfection, just to optimize what I have. This will be used for two-channel music only. I'll try to describe the setup as best I can but I'm sure I do not know the proper terminology.

The components are as follows:

Pair of Aerial Acoustics floor speakers. Towers. No model number. I'm thinking 7B maybe. Have contacted Aerial to see if they can help me identify them. They have a tweeter, midrange and two woofers. Rear bass port. Separate connectors for woofers and midrange/tweeter. 

Madrigal Proceed HPA 2 amp. 250 watts. Weighs a ton.There are very large shielded(?) 'biamped'(?) cables from the amp to the speakers.

Audio Research LS16 Stereo PreAmp. There are large shielded XLR cables from the pre amp to the amp.

Onkyo home theater 'receiver' that I do not like. Remote is lost. Set up is tedious.

There is a very basic Arcam CD player and a Sony phono.

I've got it all hooked up. Bass seemed poor just running CD through pre-amp. If I run CD player to Onkyo to pre amp and adjust bass with Onkyo the sound is incredible (to me).

This system will be used for casual listening, CDs, records, radio, and iTunes via cell phone. I know that is like using a Porsche 911 to get groceries....but it was free. And there will be times when I can sit down for serious listening but that will be infrequent.

I plan on replacing the Onkyo home theater receiver with a basic FM Tuner/Bluetooth/receiver (probably a Sony). This will be for radio and iTunes so even though it is probably not a quality unit I don't think that will matter since the input (iTunes) won't be all that great anyway.

My main questions have to do with how to route the CD, the tuner and the phone through the system.

The preamp has RCA input connectors for all three. But if I run the CD and the phono directly through the preamp there is no way to adjust bass and treble and as mentioned running the CD directly through the preamp resulted in great high and midrange quality but low bass. So should I run the CD and phono into the receiver I'm going to buy and then just run the receiver out to the preamp in?

Sorry for the long post and appreciate any help you guys can give.

George


n80

Showing 7 responses by mcreyn

mcreyn
293 posts
 
A couple of quick thoughts:

1)  pull the Onkyo out.  The CD and Phono should be running directly to the pre-amp.  
2)  make sure the speakers are in phase, positive to positive from the amp to speaker terminal on both.  One might be flipped.  
3)  make sure the speakers are positioned correctly.  Start a couble of feet from the side and back walls. There are a lot of articles explaining setup and bass nulls and peaks.  

Report back.  
mcreyn
293 posts
 
N80,

It sounds like most of the issue you are having with the system is that you are used to a certain sound and it is taking time for you to adjust to this new, arguably better system.  It seems you have it at least tentatively set up properly.  The components you have received, are all great quality and the speakers should have plenty of bass.  Here are my additional suggestions:

1)  It appears your pre-amp has a tape loop.  For $149, you can buy a Schiit Loki, which is an eq that runs in the tape loop.  http://www.schiit.com/products/loki  I caution you however, to limit how much bass boost you add, as you can end up overdriving the speakers or clipping the amp.  If you are listening at low levels, the ear is less sensitive to bass and many will use something like this to restore the perceived loss of bass at lower levels.  The term for this change is called the Fletcher-Munson curve if you wish to read about it.  You could also always add a subwoofer later if you want (Rythmik is my suggestion).  

2)  Please take that Onkyo receiver out the loop.  It is not helping anything and adding to your issues.  For the turntable, you can get a phono preamp that will work better than the one built into the Onkyo for $50.  Try the Art Pro Audio DJPREII or RollsVP29.

3)  Radio Tuner-  Nobody want's them anymore.  I just gave away a great Proton Tuner.  You can find them on craigslist for a song. 

4)  Bluetooth/Music Streaming-  You will likely notice that Bluetooth from your phone doesn't sound great.  If you have internet at your Cabin, take a look at a Google Chromecast audio for $25.00. It will let you stream from your phone and most music streaming services.  If at some point in the future, you want better sound from it, add an outboard DAC.  You can get perfectly decent ones from $100 (Schiit Mani is my suggestion for that price) up to ones that cost more than a car.  

5)  Cables to hook it up-  For your needs, don't go spending a lot.  There is a company on Amazon named "Worlds Best Cables" that sells some great value cables for about $20-30 a pair.  Otherwise, Amazon Basics or Monoprice RCA cables will get the job done for even less money. 

6)  As others have said, have fun with it.  You have been given something great.  For less than $350 you can configure it to work how you want it to.       
mcreyn
293 posts
 
" On another forum, not really an audio forum, I was told that I could not run a combo tuner/receiver/amp through the LS16 preamp. But, the LS16 (I’ve determined that mine is the MKII) has a set of RCA inputs marked "Processor". That is what I ran the Onkyo home theater unit through. Is there any reason I can’t use the Sony tuner/receiver plugged into the "Processor" inputs to get radio and phono (until I purchase a dedicated phono preamp)? In other words, I know it sounds okay to my untrained ear, but will it hurt anything running a 100 watt receiver into the LS16 preamp?"

This should work ok, subject to a couple of items:

1) Does the receiver have a pre-out? It will say pre-out or preamp out and have RCA’s. If yes, you can use the processor inputs, and the receiver will act as the phono preamp and tuner, with it controlling the volume.

2) If the receiver DOES NOT have pre-outs, you will have pull the signal from a tape out and route it to a regular input on the ARC. If this is case, DO NOT use the processor loop on the ARC, as the processor loop removes the volume control from the circuit and will result in full volume going to the speakers with no control from the receiver or the pre-amp. In this case, using the tape out from the receiver, the ARC would be the volume control.

Keep in mind, when you run a signal from the RCA’s, you are not coming off the amplifier in the receiver, so the power output of the receiver becomes irrelevant.
mcreyn
293 posts
 
As for WAF, my wife gets a pass here because she has accepted a whole lot of my other more intrusive hobbies. I can’t complain. So I’ll have to pick and choose my dedicated listening time.

The thing that really kills me is that my daughter and her husband will be moving into _my_ cabin in two weeks for six months while their new home is being built. This is going to limit good listening time to just about zero.

I have racked my brain about where to put the system in my house. There just isn’t any place where it will fit within the space and the decor (WAF).

You sir are a smart man.

While it seems strange, if you have a garage, you could use that as a listening room. Just put the speakers back against the wall and pull them out when you listen. You can grab a chair from the kitchen. A cheap large throw rug or old large piece of carpet can be used on the floor to help treat any floor reflections.  If nothing else, you will have the coolest garage system in the world when you are working in it.  
mcreyn
293 posts
 
Just try and get the sofa out from the rear wall a couple of feet.  If you put the speakers close to the sidewalls, a couple of absorption panels will work wonders for the first reflection points.  GIK Acoustics sells them for a resonable price, has information about how to treat and will make recommendations if you send them info about your room and setup.  
mcreyn
293 posts
 
Just want to say thanks to everyone for all the help. I spend time on a number of technical type websites. Some of them are not so friendly especially when you're a noob asking stupid questions. It is refreshing to get good, friendly, non-condescending advice on a technical website and I appreciate it.

Your questions aren't stupid.  We all start somewhere.  I think the members on this forum are likely a bit older than some of the other forums.  In my experience, as we get older, most of us get more patient as well as learn that 1) there is more than one correct answer, 2) our opinion is exactly that, and 3) there is plenty of room in this world for other views.

I have found AVSforum to be pretty good also, but they are much more oriented towards home theater and are pretty strongly in the objectiveness camp.  That said, I have watched them get on experience forum members for not being polite to new members or acting arrogant towards them.    
mcreyn
293 posts
 
Glad you are enjoying it.  I would pass on the B&W sub.  That line never sounded very good to me, muddy and boomy.  If you get the urge to purchase a sub, I would look long and hard at Rythmik.  
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