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No bass on B&W 800D2

Hi,

I’ve been a B&W fan Since the late 90s and have owned many different speakers over the years. I’ve owned a pair of 802Ds (first gen) For a long time and those had always been my dream speaker. 

I recently had the opportunity to upgrade to a pair of 800D2. I had never heard the 800 or the second generation diamonds before, but was tempted by the idea of owning the flagships. I don’t like the looks and sound of the newer generation 800 so in my mind, I was upgrading to the top of the line speaker of the last generation that I like.

I’ve had these speakers for three months now, and I’ve played around with positioning and levels of my subwoofers. when I first set them up I immediately noticed a lack of bass compared to the 802’s. I listen in the near field and have the 800 approximately in the same position as the 802, although with slightly more toe in and a little further away from the wall as they seem more sensitive to room placement than the 802s did. Even pushed up to the wall there is not more bass, just boom. 
 

I’m powering them with a Classé sigma amp 2, which doubles to 400W a channel on 4 ohms. Before you say it’s the amp, the 802s sounded exactly the same on my Denon 4520 as they did on the Classé amp after I upgraded to that - so I don’t really subscribe to the “more power” idea and believe an amp won’t change the sound dramatically as long as it’s decent quality and has enough power. I mostly listen at lower levels anyhow. 
 

Has anybody had the same issue with the 800D2 lacking so much bass compared to the 802D? The midrange sounds about the same and the highs are way more tame, which I like, but this lack of low end authority is making me seriously consider selling these again which makes me sad - since they are absolutely gorgeous in the looks department. 
 

thanks for your thoughts in advance - would appreciate hearing from actual owners of these. 

seb_audio
emergingsoul
1,125 posts
 

Can you connect only the bass drivers to your amplifiers and see how things are? It's a shame you can't compare them to the 802s.

I am bi amping the 802 d3’s I have, and each speaker has 600 W mono McIntosh amplifiers to support the bass drivers.  But 400 should be fine.

Personally while the 802 bass power is fine I'm concerned about the quality of the bass that I'm hearing.  But I'm very picky.  

I'm curious do you have them connected to a Home theater processor and maybe you can play around with the DSP curves to see what happens. DSP for your stereo may be an idea if you don't do that. That may help boost the bass. I always thought the 800 were a very room filling experience.  They were very big and the drivers are very big too.  I do know the Bowers crossovers tend to steal a lot of strength from the signal. They seem to be constraining the signal I wish they freed things up better than they do.

emergingsoul
1,125 posts
 

@seb_audio 

I looked at the power specks for both of your speakers.

 

The high end of the range for the 800s is 1000 W and for the 802 first generation it's 500.

To me that suggest your under powering the 800s relative to the 802s significantly based upon the specificatio…. The 800s really need a lot more power.  You're using the 4 ohm connection and who knows what that could be doing. Using 400w but I'm not sure how the speakers interpreting that.  Have you tried connecting to the 8 Port on the back of the speakers?

davetheoilguy
146 posts
 

@seb_audio 

Those speakers do produce a lot of bass when working correctly.  And you’ve run all the usual checks.

They are sensitive to room placement.  Try moving closer/farher from the wall.  And I mean move them 10 feet from the wall to a stupid position to see if you have a null.  
 
if you have them, put a thick “bass trap” behind the speakers just sitting on the floor about two inches from the wall to see if your getting a null.  If not handy, use two very thick couch cushions for a test.  (I have to use a bass trap behind my subwoofers/main speakers due to a weird room configuration.)

They’re used so see if something is jammed or fell into the port (eg foam plug was out in and someone pushed it in)

 Try toe while moving around.  I wouldn’t think this is it, but you’re moving them around, so why not.

The real test is to buy a room microphone and go run REW test from your listening room.  I did this extensively before treating my room.  The mic is cheap and the software is free.  

Or maybe you’re a bass addict.  I have 800D3s and need two big SVS16 ultras to give me the bass I like.  I ran REW and it showed all was good but I wanted to feel bass in my chest.

seb_audio OP
11 posts
 

Thank you, @davetheoilguy !! Funny that you have yours paired with SVS subs as well. I liked the sound of them better than the B&W sub i had before. 
 

I have a measurement mic and will measure with REW this week. Will post graphs here. 
 

do the woofers on your 800 move noticeably under load? Mine barely move while my subs are going nuts. I’m not expecting the same level of excursion on the 800, but more than nothing. 
 

Since the speakers are in the same spot as the 802 I guess it’s pretty close to an A/B test and I still doubt I’d all of a sudden be sitting in a null. Subs are in the same spot too. I am crossing them over higher and dialed them up by a few db and I’m still not happy with the level of bass I have compared to what the 802s produced. 

davetheoilguy
146 posts
 

@seb_audio 

”do the woofers on your 800 move noticeably under load? Mine barely move while my subs are going nuts.”

No, not really.  And yes my 16ultras are visibly moving. But keep in mind SVS specializes in subs and has big movement (and air) because it designs purpose built woofer drivers.  You can’t have big movement like that and multitask into the lower midrange like the 800s do.  It’s completely normal.

Do get a flashlight and look for foam (or a sock) or whatever stuck in your speakers.  Sometimes, with age and poor handling it could have even fallen down from where it is mounted.  This would prevent proper movement of the 800 drivers.

My money on the issue is a weird null for no logical reason (it’s called acoustic “theory” for a reason) or, slightly more likely, you’re a bass addict.

It’s a fatal disease.  Chronic.  The only cure is MORE POWER.

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