Nietzsche and Runaway Audio Consumption

Who's to judge who has spirit and who has not?  And who will deny the non-spirited everything they desire? Pretty sure it'll be the ones with no spirit making these decisions.

Not sure the spirit N speaks of exists within any man, yet within an audiophile! Even the most pure of our desires, which is to enjoy music played at high sq level is unworthy of being placed at top of spirit hierarchy.

This is the kind of philosophy that divides, and elicits hubris in those who judge themselves in highest spirit realm. Is the billionaire for whom spending a million on some material good means relatively little of higher spirit than the person who saves and dreams about a single relatively low priced material good?

The spirit N speaks of likely only exists within the ascetic, and no ascetic worth his salt would be caught dead with stereo system.

Exactly, the freedom from desire.

Interested in acoustic without the material need of audio equipment. In other words, the sound of nature.

The ascetic is seeking maximum freedom, freed of desire one is absolutely free, at least as free as a material body can be.

Yes, the burden of desire burns within rich and poor, the point I was making is the very same possession the rich man acquires without hesitation the poor man dreams about. Does this mean the rich man filled with less desire?

@snilf You have it exactly as I understand it. Under this formulation, development of one's taste may be problematic. What is in good taste to one is bad to another. Is there some objective definition of good taste, thus, good spirit?  Also, in order to attain this high order of spirit, does it have to be cultivated, is it not innately within all of us? Does the mere fact of living in material world, full of desires corrupt us from ever achieving this spirit?

Is the audiophile goal of greater love for music and reproduction of music corrupted by the need for material goods, meaning the equipment,  for achieving that goal? Does this mean there is direct correlation between quality of equipment and degree of love for music and music reproduction? In other words, the higher sound quality one can achieve will increase their love of music and it's reproduction?

I think that may be the dilemma. As audiophiles,  I presume even those with high spirit, those seeking high quality systems for the sake of music, are continually seeking greater connection to the music. Is this a never ending quest? And if the quest is never ending is that a truly representative of this spirit N is speaking of? And speaking of quests in general, seems much room for destructive elements, even if quest undertaken for right reasons.

I"m not trying to negate what N is saying here, I do believe there can be an intentional cultivation or development of spirit. Just not so sure the quest doesn't corrupt us all to some degree. My other issue, as previously mentioned is the inherent divisiveness of attributing spirit to some and not others, and who's to judge it.

Good to know others with spirit and questioning of spirit still exist!

Seems to me information, data taking the place of spirit in decline of civilization. Its rather confusing, on one hand, information, data elevated to level of belief, on other, diminished  such that cults of personality arise.

Those with spirit are always mindful of the entirety of universe, and how relatively insignificant they are. And yet, be significant in the sense one can feel united with all the spirited that ever existed upon the earth.

Me thinks the increasing divisions we observe today are in direct inverse to the loss of spirit in the masses.

And so we can value experience of original and reproduction each in it's own way. A printed reproduction may even provide greater cultivation of spirit vs original painting. Because the print has relatively little material value, nearly all value contained or perceived in what the painting says to us. The original may divert our attention to material value, artist's technical skill, etc.

This conversation brings to mind Robert Pirsig's, 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.' When quality only perceived as judgment on linear scale we lose sight of process and true values, we only see the ends of things.  A more holistic view understands and values all the parts that make up the whole. Complex systems are made more easily understood and each part becomes more valued.

Audio systems and motorcycles, and all complex systems for that matter can be contemplated in like manner. Rather than jump to conclusions based on simplistic notions of what is good and bad, we can contemplate the qualities of complex systems. Its in these qualities we find the human spirit. Capacitors, resistors, pistons, connecting rods, all the parts contained within audio equipment, motorcycles, and all complex systems, invented and manufactured by humans, all endowed with spirit of those makers.

And so, are audiophiles engaged in spiritual work when building audio systems? Perhaps those with above mindfulness are. On the other hand, maybe all of this  delusional rationalization, the whole endeavor may be in fact nothing other than a zero sum game, the wins are temporary at best, all become a succession of loses. The win only comes when no further upgrades desired or purchased, and this has to be permanent position. One may be contemplating or desiring audio system changes right up to death, in this case futile endeavor.

Food for thought in all the above.

One thing we haven't touched on up to now, what about our own contribution to this cultivation of spirit. Aren't we artists of a kind in putting together audio systems? Yes, we want to experience the spirit of music and it's performance at home, but aren't we inherently contributing to this experience?

Which calls into question, what are our true intentions in this whole endeavor? I'm sure there are times when we feel spiritual connection to music and performance. Is there not also a feeling of pride, of self satisfaction in having put together this system that evokes such feelings? If this case then we ourselves are unquestionably part of this evocation of the spirit. 

So, is ego fulfillment part of our true intent as audiophiles?  Do we not superimpose ourselves into this musical performance? Based on my observations and personal experience, feelings of pride inevitable. Is this truly cultivation of the spirit or something else? Can the artist divorce him or herself from the masterpiece they have created?

Also, is pride inherently good spirit, or only good to a point? Certainly there is malevolent spirit in form of hubris. When does pride morph into hubris and how can we tell when it has?

Perhaps audiophilia is an affliction after all.

Are there humans devoid of spirit, or is it only unknown to themselves? God and N not dead as long as they evoke spirit in others.

Spirit much like love, sometimes spontaneous combustion within us, other times dies without warning. When it leaves us, where does it go? Why is love and spirit so often thought of as coming from the heart? 

Some claim to read chakras, some feel vibrations, often called vibes, auras, etc. in response to all sorts of stimulus. These are symptoms or forms of spirit reported by humans down through history, universal and timeless.

Spirit is what informs one. Material interests, information, data all emanate from human spirit. One has the freedom to choose what spirits inform. Choose malevolent spirits, anger, complaint consumes, choose good spirit, experience a more measured mind.

Wisdom is good spirit, knowledge only elementary. Having the widest possible perspective is what wisdom seeker after. Having only self perspective is blind man, everything zero sum game. One can only gain wisdom with courage, fear closes doors, courage opens.

And its not enough to merely read the words and digest facts, one must encounter the spirit, in other words be empathetic to those with differing perspectives. Intention then becomes known, spirit drives intention, intention is the spirit.

So much conflict created by misjudging intention. Understanding intention or keeping mindful one may not know another's  intent will help mediate one's reaction.

Some say love is greatest lacking in world, I've always thought empathy greatest lacking.

@mahgister  You are well read and make many good points, but spirit doesn't come solely from books and philosophers. Spirit is lived, it is personal experience. I heard much spirit in music I listened to last night, Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations, what spirit! So many others as well, I was on spiritual journey lead by so many great musicians with such great spirit. And to think I have system that delivers this spirit with illusion of these performers in my room, Yes, this audiophile thing is spiritual work!

And now for something completely different. Do you believe one can cultivate the spirit through hallucinogenic substances?  Does proper intention alongside hallucinogenic ingestion create space for seeing the unseen. I can only answer for myself, that indeed it does! Spirit lives in the places normal everyday life obscures, to use an old worn out cliche, opening new doors of perception allows one visions of what was formerly unseen. My forays into this area spurred by early writings of Carlos Castaneda and Travels with Don Juan. I used these readings as my intention when entering these realms.

I meant questions for all on thread.

How bout imagination. Based on my observations, adults seem to organize and run every moment of their children's lives. I recall as child running free in Michigan prairies, much time to wonder about nature's secrets. Too many are far from nature to imagine and wonder, mysticism isn't even a known word. Without immersion in nature you can't begin to know our place in time and universe.

This new type of Christianity I see practiced today is certainly used as shield and sword of righteousness. This idea of personal god so hilarious. The one that always gets me is when one of these natural disasters hits, the survivor states god was with them, their prayers saved them. Unfortunately, we don't get to hear from the dead, they can't tell us how they're prayers weren't answered. Do people actually realize what they're saying when they use this logic! What they're really saying is god liked them more than neighbor, talk about hubris! No spirit here, unless your're talking mean spiritied.

I have long suffering Christian relatives, they are never wrong, they speak to their personal god each and every day, and in regard to every single political issue of the day. Every single idea or thought they ever had is absolute truth, and most amazing, they've never been wrong!  I've confronted them with prior incorrect statements over the years, they refuse to acknowledge a thing to my face. Goes into that empty part of brain where ignorance and denial reside.

And while I subscribe to Buddhist philosophy, don't get me started on the harms done by Buddhists down thru time immemorial. No, religion is separate from spirit. Religion man made, spirit comes from unknown source within all of us, I presume?