New Yggdrasil - First (and second) Impressions
I’ve look long and hard magnified at the A (MkI) and B (MkII) boards and I can see the digital input board is different, and the middle of the dac/output board on each channel after the dacs U1 and U2 has a new opamp U13 and a couple of smd resistors R55 R59 R54? to the left. A (MkI) http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?attachments/yggdrasil-v1-jpg.11969/ B (MKII) http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?attachments/yggdrasil-v2-jpg.11970/ BTW are all new and B stock Yggy now sold the new B (MkII) version? Chewers George |
It was a while ago with the Wadia Transport and dac that had the optional AT&T receiver and transmitter with ST to ST connectors (like BNC) similar to these with toslink conenctors https://www.ebay.com/itm/DH-Labs-Silver-Sonic-Glass-Master-Toslink-1-5-meter-Glass-Optical-Cable/361... Then I also put a smear of indexing gel on both ends for perfect coupling to the receiver and transmitter. I'm sure same can be done with Toslink plastic ones as well. http://i-fiberoptics.com/tool-detail.php?id=515&cat=epoxies Once all this was done, I swear it was better than the spdif 75ohm coax connection. Cheers George |
George, I’m reluctant to do that. Are you meaning to try and detect the difference between the analog A and B boards, assuming it can be detected by eye? For the cost of $550usd, it should be clearly seen, at least most of it. Actually, we have the before, all we need is the after, if someone can do it. Before mods: http://www.schiit.com/public/upload/general/yggy-pcb-1920.jpg Cheers George |
So what do you get for your $550? Two new analog boards with 4 really expensive DAC chipsSo from this it seems they are changing the dac's from the AD5791 to something else, you seem to be buddies with them gdhal ask them what the 4 new dac chips are? Cheers George |
Hi George. Could you please provide your opinion as to the benefit (or detriment?) to be realized with an Yggdrasil that features "increased line driving capability (600 ohm OK)"? Can you speculate as to how this is an "improvement". Thanks. To me, what it had already was more than sufficient to be able to drive 600ohms!!! In our system this would never be that low, more like 47000ohms or higher, and at 75ohm and enough voltage from a discrete fet arrangement to clip just about any poweramp, which may even have been a Pass B1 buffer copy or similar. I'd be interested in what this new buffer is. This is what was the original buffer as stated: " DC-coupled, low-noise, Class A JFET buffers and summers with high current output capability to drive long cable runs and low-impedance line inputs, such as 600 ohm professional gear" Cheers George |
"increased line driving capability", "Increased line drive" does not necessarily mean higher voltage output, otherwise it would have said higher voltage output. Better "drive" means just lower output impedance with even more current from what was before 75ohm, which I've already said was more than ample. |
The cost to upgrade is $550. Due to the need for firmware and hardware updates, Firmware changes should be free, and it already has discrete Class-A J-Fet buffers with an output impedance of 75ohms and enough voltage out to make just about any poweramp to give it's max output wattage. Hmm? Cheers George |
That’s good, 2 x AD5791 per channel one for - and one for + they didn’t cut any corners with the balanced. But one thing I would have done, forget the balanced, and parallel the two dacs per channel and only have single ended outputs, the sound of this dac may have jumped to another level again. Cheers George |
From Schiit:The Analog Devices AD5791 that’s in the Yaggy is single ended output only. http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5791.pdf If they used two of them, one for each channel, then the balanced output is false and just tacked on, and the SE should sound better with shielded interconnects up to around 3mts If they however they used used 4 of them then they can get real balanced from the AD5791’s all the way to the outputs. And will have less noise if using interconnects over 5mts. Schiits are built to a price they may not have splurged the extra dough on it just to get real balanced, maybe the proof is to open it up and count how many AD5791’s there are. Cheers George |
George my friend theta is with balance output as well, that Theta DAC is way ahead of its time...now the yagdrassil for less money, how can Gdhal go wrong in choosing it..Having the balanced one won't give a better sound than the single ended one, just means he can run longer interconnects > 5mts to the pre without the chance of noise coming through, if you use 1-3mts your fine with Single Ended. PS: And remember not all balanced inputs or outputs are real, as in this. Sometimes they just throw a balanced opamp in on the end of the single ended output to create a false balanced output, this goes for inputs as well. Cheers George |
gdhal You have to do your homework gdhal, bnc is true 75ohm, rca is too variable and is not. That's why on highend like Wadia and ML dac/cdp's they gave you bnc but even these can be 75ohm or 50ohm. AT&T glass fiber optical inputs and outputs were the best for digital transfer, but they were an expensive option, and easily damage if the glass lead was bent to tight. http://gvnweb.ddns.net:8081/BNC_75vs50.jpg Cheers George |
Sorry I find the opposite. That dacs make a bigger difference than what transports do, when reading CD's and using spdif proper 75ohm BNC connected coax, as RCA are not 75ohm. But using AT&T GLASS optical link (especially with indexing fluid) receiver and transmission as Wadia used to do as an very expensive extra, is better than proper 75ohm spidf coax with proper 75ohm BNC connections, as RCA "are not" 75ohm. Cheers George |
Actually George, as you read the thread further you could/should deduce your statement is not true.No, if you read my last post, what I was getting at, is that, no one would start a thread with these posts if they were "shilling for Schiit", as was inferred you could be doing, the way I read ptss’s last post. Cheers George |
I don't own a Yaggy, but from all reports it is a well done Multibit, and to me should be discernable for the better over an Oppo DS using the same PCM source material, try feeding both a CD from a proper transport, maybe it the download junk that doing a great equalising job on both for you. Cheers George |
You guys need to listen to the new discrete R2R Multibit flagship converters from the like of Total Dac, MSB and such, converting PCM 24/96 then listen to the same from whatever the best is from ESS. I remember a lengthy PR video by designer and CEO ESS’s Martin Mallison in where he states somewhere through it, that they have finally bought Delta Sigma conversion close to the performance of the last of the Burr Brown PCM1704 multibit chip. Sad that 1704 was stopped being made because of the cost of the manufacturing process. But now the likes of Total Dac, MSB and quite a few others have taken R2R Multibit far ahead of that last manufactured PCM1704. You got to ask yourself why are they bothering with discrete when a $10 ESS Sabre is as good?? Cheers George |
"Some audiophiles claim that reversing the polarities of all the channels simultaneously makes a subtle perceptible difference in the reproduced soundYes I believe it can, I’ve heard the difference using dynamic speakers especially in the bass, but less so using planer,esl, types. It’s sound it makes with dynamic speakers in that initial movement of the cone is out into the room (pushing) rather than backward (sucking), this pushing of the air on the eardrum has a more discernible sound rather than the sucking of the air, and gives a more leading edge to the start of the bass note. Cheers George |
Basically a ladder R2R DAC has poor linearity but low noise and converts PCM natively. The use of basically is correct that haven't been done well, this is why I've always stipulated "well implemented" when saying this, but saying this I'd rather have not perfect linearity compared to a Delta Sigma dac that only giving a facsimile of the real thing with pcm. Even old school TDA1541's "well implemented" sound better to me doing PCM than Delta Sigma (even the highly rated Bricasti M1) can do. Cheers George |
fact that the Yggy is mulitbit R2R ladder technology, whereas the other DACs I have are all Delta-Sigma. Further, the buzz is such that it leads one to believe mulitbit is "audibly better".This is correct, when both are trying to convert pcm, cd, 16/44 or 24/96 or dxd. As Multibit is "bit perfect" converting these files, where Delta-Sigma can only give a facsimile of them. Quote MoJo Music: " When a PCM file is played on a (Delta Sigma), DSD or Bit Stream converter, the DAC chip has to convert the PCM to DSD in real time. This is one of the major reasons people claim DSD (Delta Sigma) sounds better than PCM, when in fact, it is just that the chip in most modern single-bit (Delta Sigma) DACs do a poor job of decoding PCM." Cheers George |
