New vs. old DACs - opinions?


I'm on the market for a new DAC. I've noticed that you can find used DACs from, say, 8 years ago that are heavily marked down from their original price. I just saw one sell for $400 that was originally $1500, for example.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the progression of DACs seems very different from that of amps... an old amp, like McIntosh, is still highly competitive today... but it seems that newer DACs are more evolved, refined, and use higher quality parts for less money, right?

Another thought is - before DACs were as widely used as they are today, perhaps the mark-up was much greater in the past...? Where-as now, with the influx of foreign manufactured DACs, there is a healthy bit of competition that keeps prices down by limiting the manufacturer mark-up. Correct me if I'm off here as well.

So, overall I'm wondering if I would be better off buying something new like a Keces or MHDT DAC or finding something older that is heavily marked down.
djembeplay

Showing 2 responses by kirkus

The main thing that has inarguably improved over the past couple decades is the fabrication processes by which monolithic ICs are made - and since the overwhelming majority of audio DACs are based on monolithic products . . . the palete of resources available to the IC design engineer has changed considerably.

That being said . . . just as everything else in audio (and life in general), the success of a design is very closely connected to how the designers/engineers work to reach their goals with the resources they have available. And in the late-1980s/early-1990s, the goals of most IC designers were probably more similar those of audiophile products than they are now -- there used to be many $10-and-up "statement" mono DAC chips available, that cared nothing for power consumption or single-supply operation, and assumed that the circuit designer had no problem spending extra money on separate circuitry to do the processing/upsampling.

Nowadays, a $4 audio DAC is VERY expensive, they're all at least stereo (if not multichannel), and have some sort of oversampling or sample-rate-converter built in - making the circuit designer's job much easier, if they want "off the shelf" performance. Most of them are also much more flexible in terms of software control, and place low power consumption as a priority. Translation: these days, the perfectionist audio business has very little part in paying the bills at Texas Instruments et. al.

It's true, the chips HAVE gotten "better" . . . especially if you're paying attention to the same parameters that most IC designers have. But all circuit architectures have their stregnths and weaknesses - and they're all ultimately dependent on the designers and engineers of the final product whether the parts fulfill the promise of what the chips themselves can do.
Kijanki, I'm right there with you on opamps being so much improved . . . thinking back to the "bad old days" of slow all-NPN types like the 741 just about makes my stomach churn. And I'm pretty amazed about the quality of diverse types of devices - i.e. high-quality JFETS and complimentary bipolars sharing the same wafer? Something we wouldn't have thought possible a few decades ago.

But an opamp example that would fit the example I gave above (for DACs) are those modern CMOS devices with an onboard DAC for trimming? Yes, their offset specs are impressive, especially so for inexpensive devices . . . but they're irrevelant for perfectionist audio. Ditto for rail-to-rail input and output capability, ultra-low quescient current, and single-supply "precision" operation.

Fortunately, in the world of opamps, it does seem that the bouquet of ultra-high-quality products available is more extensive than ever . . . but the fact that the attributes of most concern to most IC manufacturers (or at least the ones they spill the most ink over) aren't ones that matter most to high-end audio . . . is worth taking notice of.