New TT : Balanced vs. Unbalanced Connection?

lewm

... presence of an XLR input, does not prove that they equipment is fully balanced in its internal circuit. This is research you will have to do.

That's true. There are also fully balanced phono preamps that use only RCA connections. The connectors themselves don't reveal anything.

atmasphere

You don’t get any more gain. That only happens with active outputs that don’t support the balanced standard, AES48. When you run a cartridge balanced, it supports the standard. So no increase in gain.

That is not quite accurate. It would be true if all balanced components supported the AES48 standard but - as you well know - many do not. As an example, Audio Research has many differentially balanced amps and preamps and they do not support AES48. Yet these designs still offer advantages over single-ended designs, as explained by Wikipedia:

"The primary advantage of the balanced line format is good rejection of common-mode noise and interference when fed to a differential device such as a transformer or differential amplifier.

It’s a simple fact that designs such as the excellent ARC products will yield 6 db greater gain when run in balanced mode. Or, if your prefer to look at it another way, they yield a 6 dB improvement in S/N. That can make a big difference, especially in something such as a phono preamp.

Ralph, I know that you understand all of this. But notwithstanding your fine trademarked and patented products, there are many other excellent balanced audio components on the market. You muddy the waters when you mistakenly claim they aren’t balanced. Here’s the spec on my ARC preamp, straight from the manufacturer:

REF5 SE: Main output: 12dB Balanced output, 6dB SE output.

atmasphere

I've not once anywhere on the web made the claim as you suggest above ...

Here is what you wrote:

When you run a cartridge balanced, it supports the standard. So no increase in gain.

If you run a cartridge "balanced" (technically, it's floating) into a differentially balanced phono preamp such as an ARC Ref Phono 2SE, you will have 6 dB more gain in balanced mode than unbalanced.

For home use, the advantage is that a properly set up balanced line will minimize the 'sound' of the cable.

That's is your opinion and I respect it. But many others think the advantage is:

... good rejection of common-mode noise and interference ...

... as noted in the Wikipedia link I previously provided.

... the output of a balanced preamp that does not support AES48, there can be a 6dB in the apparent increase in gain ...

That is misleading because it's not an "apparent" increase in gain. It's a genuine, specified, measurable increase in gain. Or, if your prefer to look at it another way, it's a 6 dB improvement in S/N.

Ralph @atmasphere, there's no question that you're expert and manufacture fine products, many protected by your trademarked and patented circuits. But there's more than one way to execute balanced circuits, and you're obviously prejudiced against those who take a different approach.

atmasphere

I think this might be coming from a misunderstanding of how differential amplifiers work. So let’s look at that: A differential amplifier gets its name from the fact that it amplifies what is different between its two inputs ...

Pedantic.

I’m going to do you a favor, Ralph. After this post, I’m going to allow you the last word on this matter in this thread. You have my word. Based on your past practice, I know you’ll have many!

For the last time let’s look at that phono cartridge into a ARC Ref Phono 2SE using its balanced out into an ARC Ref5SE. That is the exact combination I’ve mentioned in this thread, and its results are not unusual.

Here is the ARC factory specification for the Ref Phono 2SE:

There are two separate sets of inputs, with selectable gain between Low (51dB BAL / 45dB SE) and High (74dB BAL / 68dB SE).

I can confirm that these products meet specification. My best to you.