New Streamer, DAC or Let it Be

Dougsat, there is, in fact, another room, although the layout is far from ideal.    It has my original AVR in there with a good set of speakers, running "background" music through Heos. I also have a modest amplifier not currently in use that could be inserted.  I prefer to pipe music through my new speakers and higher quality setup in the prime space, but am curious what you might suggest in the way of a $3K musical system.

GHDP, thanks for responding, I have appreciated your input in the various threads out here.  I like your one box notion, particularly as I pray for UPS or FedEx deliveries in the dark of night or when the wife is working, to sneak the next purchase into the house.  The one box solution prevents piecemeal upgrades of the components, but one box to rule them all is not a bad thing.

Your point also about better sound being an upgrade away is important.  It requires listening and learning, in your own environment, before the Aha! moment that "this" is what I wanted all along.

Your question cuts to the chase.  One of the sad facts of life these days is the lack of places (shops) to hear different equipment for a hands (or ears) on experience.  Overall, music sounds pretty darned good on my system, but I suspect (here is the unknown part) the sound can always be bigger and more resolving.  In my home theatre, I took it on faith that an amp upgrade from an Emotiva to the Parasound would turn heads.  Did it?  Mmm, still not sure, which could speak to my listening ability, or the fact the Emo wasn't too shabby to begin with.  I am open to, even crave, a WOW.  Will an upgrade produce WOW, and how much needs to be changed to get to WOW?  I don't know what I don't know.

A corollary is my home theatre.  After a great deal of research, time and $$$, it sounds good but it is not WOW.  I have come to accept the reality of my home theatre in my space, with all its limitations, my equipment choices and budget.  Perhaps it is great, given all that, but I started with higher hopes.  I yearn for WOW with music, trying to glean what might help from the experience of others like yourself.

Expectation bias has seemed to run my life, and not necessarily for the better!  Thank you, Mr J-Bourne.

Nek, to your point, something I have been meaning to do is swap the cables around between the Parasound and Emo as an A/B to see if I detect a discernible sound difference.  My setup is such that it requires considerable contortions to get back there, and moving one set of cables always seems to loosen another set I never intended to touch.  But it will be enlightening.  Thanks for reminding me.

Btw, the SQ differences between Parasound and Emo always seemed to be masked by another change, e.g., cable of some sort, so it was hard to judge.  Plus, that darned expectation bias, where I expected the sound to improve when the change was made...

YYZ, I looked long and hard at Small Green's products and adopted his fiber philosophy.  From my router, I have an FMC with (more or less) the high grade Finisar Small Green sells in his package, a run of fiber cable to another FMC with Finisar and LPS, which feeds an LHY SW-8 ethernet switch that connects to the Node, Amazon Cube for video, et al.  I felt that setup provided the cleanest signal down the line.  I did an A/B versus a run of ethernet to the LHY and felt the fiber was better.  Not by a lot, but better.  And thanks for the input on the Gustard.  It is my initial DAC foray, and perhaps a good place to build upon.  I liked the Schitt products I read about, as they care about quality, make it here and have a sense of humor.  The latter goes a long way for me in this world (quality first and foremost).

Soix, I lived with the Marantz sound for years and like it.  It does a really good job with home theatre and the stereo sound is not shabby.  Could the sound be improved with another setup or preamp?  No doubt.  A friend is a McIntosh-phile and his system, with venerable Dahlquiest DQ20 speakers, sounds extremely good, and he has a much better room to play it in.  I happen to like mine more because it has way more guts and body.  As music is lesser in my world, I'm not sure whether replacing the Marantz or running another stereo preamp side by side in my system makes sense.  That said, Mr. Prentice tossed out an all-in-one solution which has me thinking...

12many, the AVR is the control for everything in the system, including volume.  For detail, the Node connects to the Gustard U18 DDC via the best USB cable Silnote makes, then to the Gustard DAC via both HDMI and AES (I flop back and forth between them), then via Audience AU24 SX XLRs to the Marantz.  The Audience cables were a really nice upgrade.  I tried a few different IC cables, including Cardas Clear Sky and Cygnus, and found the Silnote cables their equal in sound at half the price. I have Silnote Orion ICs, and Silnote Master Anniversary Reference speaker cables to the Kantas.

12many, in the quest for WOW, a separate preamp is fraught with issues, not least of which is where to put it.  My equipment "rack" runneth over now, and the sucker just wouldn't fit.  Considering space, a separate two channel audio path and a sound quality upgrade, a combo preamp/ DAC seems a viable option.  Or, upgrading one of the components (streamer or DAC).  Or, the easiest option of all, doing nothing, as JBourne suggests.  Hmmm...

My, my, what have I wrought?  I greatly appreciate the comments thus far, it is both illuminating and daunting to consider the options.  I took a break from this thread and went through some similar ones last night out here in Audiogon-land, and there is a common theme: there is no one correct answer; so many people, so many opinions.  That "correct" answer lies within us and our pocketbooks.  As many have said, this hobby/ obsession is not for the faint of heart, not to mention the potential ongoing costs.  Yet the cost is part of the fun, the price of admission.  Even in my home theatre cocoon, knowing now what I didn't know then, I would start over.  AVR?  New one.  Amplifier?  Toss it.  Cables?  Hang the laundry from them.  Room?  Get out the demolition tools.  Wife?  Hmmm... better not go there.

At this point in my journey, which is closer to the end than the start, MY reality is that music plays an enjoyable but lesser role, the supporting actor and not the lead.  A total revamp of my system might be for the next decade, not this one.  I would like to think a single piece, streamer, DAC or streaming DAC, would get me where I am happy.  Thrilled, ecstatic and utterly satisfied?  Upgrade-itis and the steady march of technology make that very difficult.

@8th-note 

As a fellow geezer, and listening to the sage advice and experience offered here, your words ring true. WOW is, as you say, elusive. As a babe in these digital woods, I find it shocking how many streamers and DACs people have gone through to attain a level of satisfaction.  And from the sound of it, most keep on going.

My system sounds very good now, especially with my new speakers, and going back to my original post, I sought the icing on my digital cake: one piece of gear to get me to the next level.  The jury is very confused, and still out.

When I first got my DAC, I plugged the Oppo into it, and was disappointed that the DAC added little, if at all.  That could be a measure of the DAC, a lesser quality connecting cable that underperformed, or the quality of the Oppo itself.  CDs played on the Oppo are still the sound to beat in my system, although with what I have thrown into the digital mix, it is very close now.  Very close. And, I have a meager CD collection, so music listening really makes sense streaming the Qobuz library.

I am happy with and appreciate the input, and will chill, enjoy the music and ponder my options.

Robert

@rick_n 

Others have also said a better/ external preamp will reap benefits.  Curious if this means the addition of this single device (preamp) will make the difference, or is that merely the first step, where I also replace the Node and DAC as well?  Thanks.

@drmuso 

My room is somewhat L shaped with speakers in the wider part, 3 windows and 2 doors, listening position on the back wall off center, furniture behind each speaker so there isn't much "breathing room" or to optimize bass response.  Other than that...  Room correction software in the AVR, while geared for home theatre, still helps improve the overall sound in there.  Add to this no more room to add a new component.  As previously stated, hardly ideal, but it is what is, and so be it.

A one piece upgrade (streamer or DAC or combo unit) makes sense to me, but if significant sonic improvement truly requires a new preamp and amp, then I will accept that and maintain the status quo. 

Thanks @mm1tt77, for your input.  As many others have stated, a dedicated stereo preamp seems a worthy alternative as a one-piece upgrade for 2 channel listening.

Alas, ​​​​​​@laps, the two room thing is a no-go for me.  Everything for home theatre and critical stereo listening has to be in the one room I have, as there is no other proper space available.

@benanders, the Marantz AVR has the ability to turn off the room correction and go to pure stereo.  There is a Pure/ Pure Direct mode to cut out extraneous processing, but I find that mode pretty "blah."  To my ears, Marantz provides a very enjoyable stereo sound, gutsy and musical.  The speakers, btw, are Focal Kanta 2, new and still breaking in (almost there).

It intrigues me how universally bashed my Marantz AVR is.  You're a tough crowd!  This Marantz was, until a year ago, their top of the line separate and as stated, does a creditable job with two channel audio.  In all, I understand your collective bias towards pure audiophile gear and am eager to learn about it.  My ears will no doubt be winners as a result.

Robert

@panzrwagn, thanks so much for your comments and not bashing my Marantz and Node  😉.  I was looking at the Acoustimac website and the array is intriguing.  Cheers,

Robert

Thanks to recent posts, all very interesting.  Here are some comments:

Space is at a premium for me, both in my equipment rack as well as in the room itself.  @jji666, I pace all day waiting for my turn, hoping the wife finishes work early.  Hardly ideal but it is my lot. Nowhere else for headphones...

 @jimpainter, I am coming to see the Marantz may be a weak link, which makes me heartsick considering it was purportedly of audiophile quality for 2 channel, not to mention its cost.  It certainly works well in the HT, but audiophile quality is in the ear of the beholder.  I would love nothing more than to invest in more "stuff," but my loving wife has no patience with nor understanding of the equipment merry go round that this hobby is.  A good preamp may be the price of admission to quality 2 channel audio, but then there is the inevitable follow up of replacing the humble Node and my Gustard DAC.  A combo unit also makes sense.  A couple thousand here, a couple thousand there, and I am into some $$$ for something that is lesser for me.  Yet...

During this last week I had many conversations with Juan of Bliss Hifi, who is experienced and well-versed in this arena, patient and generous with his time.  He echoed the sentiment here about a quality preamp, and made suggestions that fit my situation and mindset of the moment.

I just received a T+A DAC 8 DSD on approval basis.  It is an oldie but very goodie.  Not the current model, to be sure, but within the budget and consistent with the level of my equipment.  It is a very solid step up in sound quality from my Gustard, and displays a sophistication that my system lacked, showing me what digital music can be with quality components.  Rather than taking a measured approach, I decided to do most of it now and leapt into this with both feet; an Aurender N150 arrives in a few days.  I will add the Aurender to my current system and see what it alone offers, then throw the T+A into the mix.  Yes, my HT preamp might still be a choke point, but the new equipment will hopefully get me closer to where I would like. @jji666, the Parasound is a good choice as it has a slim profile, which makes it easier to place. If all goes well, that or perhaps a used BHK (thanks, Juan) could be a follow-up step.  We shall see how this first phase of the transformation goes.

@sudnh, my cables are a mishmash, which will no doubt offend many.  I started low and slow and built from there.  Have given The Cable Co much of my hard-earned money and used their lending library, which is great.  I have limited patience for A/B comparisons and find that differences can be subtle and confusing.  I had Cardas Clear Sky speaker and IC cables, yearned for more.  Heard the Cardas Reflection, then Silnote Anniv II Master speaker cables (one down from their top of the line) and found the Silnotes a touch better and cost less.  I have since added their IC cables as well.  I have a huge bowl of spaghetti in back of my setup (13 channels of HT speakers will do that), with a wide variety of manufacturers represented: Audience Au SX from DAC, Shunyata ethernet and power cords, SR power cord, Grover Huffman IC and PC, Cullen and Wisdom Technology power cords, Morrow subwoofer cables.  Were I to do it again (not happening), would do it differently.  It has been an expensive learning curve.