Piedpiper: I am considering removing the a/c motor. Could you go into a little more detail on the do's and don't, perhaps a few pics. Thanks |
The fellow who can be contacted thru that above site is Scott Leventhal , a very nice fellow who re-wrote the Ariadne & Athea Manuals for 'Noll 15+ years ago.
Scott on occasion willingly shaires the copywrited materals on a person by person request using above web site to filter same to him . Scott also has developed a Improvment/ Tweeks page(s) for a variety of 'Nolls.
Due to his decision to distribute the materals that he has legal rights too in a manner he chooses, I feel it inapproiate w/o his permission to discuss them , however , both are valuable for 'Noll owners. So threaders contact the above site , send an e/m requesting assistence & await a response.
Who knows maybe Scott may consider forwarding the materal to this thread for downloading ? |
Hi.
I have a Maplenoll Athena, and soon I will audition a Aridne that's for sale also. If you look at http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Tables.html he offers to get anyone in touch with a man who may help new Maplenoll owners improving their tables.
BTW: I have heard the Aridne/Zyx Airy combo, and it really sounds great. Very flowing and musical:-)
Good luck.
Theo |
Packing with lots of bubble wrap would probably have prevented the damage to my table but that takes time and effort. I think the rugged construction and weight just gives the impression it does not need much packing. Anyway, i think if I ever get another used table, i will work to pick it up if possible. I have never had a problem moving one in my vehicle. If the paul wants needs some help please refer him to me and i will share some of the things i did to "fix" my issues. The tough repair was the corian but i did find a supplier that would sell me the seam glue that pretty much worked like a charm. |
Olimanmojo: Apparently the Ariadne TT does not travel well. A fellow id'ed as Paul had contacted me after having a similar shipping experience. I referred him to this bolg to assist the tables reconstruction. I hope he reads our threads. |
peter; it got bunged up during shipping, Platter was dented on edge, corian was cracked, and arm rest was cracked, but with some patiences and excellent support from Greg Davis, (seller), i was able to get it running and repaired. I plan on posting my system soon because it is a neat table. I must commend maplenoll on the system. Most tables would have been trashed after the beating this table took but it is built like a tank. i would like to implement some of the other tweaks others have done but damnit, i just want to listen to my records. I still can't get over how quiet the table is and what sound stage i am hearing. Still tweaking the VTA and have not even gotten to the oil damping trough so i know there will even be more improvements. Kind of scary since i thought I heard the best with my earlier Gyrodec but this system is a level above anything I could do with the gyro. I love that airbearing arm! It is a good fit with my zyx airy3. thanks for the note |
Dear Oilmanmojo
I wondered where that beautiful ol' table went. Glad to hear its still spinning!
Peter Breuninger |
Anyone know the thread size for cartridge screws. I'm having an amazingly hard time finding out, calling everyone I can think of who might know. I believe, at least the ones I use for my Benz based Cardas Heart, are metric. |
I believe I've got a source for brass cartridge bolts and will confirm tomorrow.
The Mapleshade AC cord must be wired into the switch, or alternatively can be simply crimp fit onto the cut and spliced stubs of the existing cord. |
Does anybody know a source for brass cartridge bolts ? I have a slew of stainless but no brass.
Has anyone had any success with replacing the captive ac cord? Mapleshade sells a replacement cord for audiogear but how it works in a 'noll I do not know. |
Piedpiper : Now your on to something . The added weight to the tube does nothing to eliminate your pick-up problems. Damping w/o weight affords potental options . I have given some thought to drilling three 3/4 to 1" holes in the plith putting brass hardware on top & bottom to act as "tuning pegs" via Michael Green. A little twist --who knows if I shall ever get that far. Post Note:
My cousins are musicans Tony & Michael Sciuto . Steve Dorf produced Tony's first Lp. Lots of bi-coastal travel to LA & Vegas . Kevin Brubaker & Paul Reed Smith know Michael very well. He has done design work with Kevin & Ibanz. Small world. |
I'm with ya, Crem. Very interesting observations re: the damping. I'll try it and see what I think. I have had some issues with stridency/tracking that I was trying to tackle, with some luck, by increasing damping. I have revisited that recently though after I had addressed some other issues that may have been more to the point.
I'm not in the neighborhood but used to be, so visits are semi regular. I know Bob, Lloyd and Pierre as a dealer and Pierre as a musician and fellow recordist. I primarily run with the musicians rather than the audiophiles when I'm back East. No high roller, I'm into efficiency, like you, minus a few years. I'm also an instrument maker so maybe I'll try my hand at a 'noll style clamp made of African Blackwood like the the Shun Mook. I much prefer the flattening of a clamp to that of a weight. |
Piedpiper : I found that filling the tube with mortight affected tonearm/cartridge compatibility.
To me the compliance factor changed perhaps because the total effective mass had been altered. For instance, Grados did an accelerated "Grado dance" and my Aq 7000fe sounded strident ,as did my dynavector and a slew of other pickups. By changing from mortight to compressed natural fibers ( in my opinion ) gave me more options -- damping varients which returned my TT to audio-heaven . Generally, most published material on the subject suggests tonearm/cartridge resonance issues revolve around the front of the tonearm. However, when you are dealing with with an "L'-ish" styled linear tracker supported by air bearings & effectly floating on air, weight/damping issues from either the front or back maybe a problem. I took note of the fact that it appears L.Walker maybe attempting to eliminate the above by his use of a air bearing tonearm design that is in open architecture , that can be viewed/copied from web pages on the internet for diyers. Good for LLoyd.
Am I crazy ? Yes sir I plead guilty as charged. But so is Pierre , LLoyd and lots of others. As you are a friend of Pierre do you reside nearby ? Should you know the name Ejazz than you know the audio-heads that make up the crowd. Some of those Kats don't think nothing of dropping 15 to 20K in a blink and trashing the rigg if they find a "better one" . Me I'm different . I try to squeese every ounce of sound out of what I own . To that purpose I reserve a few hours everyday to read Audio stuff and having done so for 28+ years. That doesn't make me smart just ahead of the curve.
Frankly, as far as I am concerned you can spend a Kilo bucks and not get one ounce more than a tricked out 'Noll. Crazy...Yep like a fox. Oh, if your really nuts try a Shun Mook record weight. Worth every $$$$. Cheers |
Crem1,
you're nuts!
Of course, you knew that but...
Seriously though, what did you notice with your variable pipe cleaner damping? |
Piedpiper : Initially , I filled the counterweight with mortight . Later, opting to remove the mortight repacking the tube with cotton pipe cleaners. The pipe cleaners allowed for damping the tube to suit my taste -- Four trimed , densely packed pipe cleaners appeared to be just right for me. Thanks to you and oilmanmojo for sharing a mother-lode of useful information. |
sounds like I've already done all of Lloyd's suggestions. I had gotten my 'noll new from Bob Dilger and had quite a lot of input about it both from him and Pierre and Lloyd, all of whom are friends of mine. I've used super glue rather than epoxy and my VTA bracket is machined out of solid aluminum with an integral bottom plate. Filling the counterweight tube with mortight was the first tweek I did. I had forgotten to mention it as it was so long ago. |
The letter from Lloyd highlighted three key areas for performance improvement. I will work to scan the document to make it available via email. The first tweak was to firmly attach a brass threaded rod to the "brass cones" or feetand then tighten until the cones will not turn. This should strengthen the support system. The cones are set into lead disks. The right front cone is the one used for level adjustment. The second tweak is focused on improving the damping from the pump to the arm/platter. Lloyd recommends using the a plenum(resonance chamber) for the airpump discharge then splitting the flow to the platter and arm. The line going to the arm should be very long and should have an additional resonance chamber. The implication is the arm is much more sensitive to pressure fluctuations. I heartily agree with this approach based on my experience with directly hooking up a "too small" compressor to the system with the single plenum in the pump discharge versus using my "shop" air compressor which has a very large surge tank and pressure regulator to smooth out the pulsations. The performance of the arm dramatically improves with the higher pressure and use of the additional plenums. I also recommend installation of a pressure regulator between the pump and the plenums. The air line going to the platter should have a needle valve to maximize the air pressure to the arm. The final tweaks involve stiffing the tone arm connection to the VTA adjustment bracket. These tweaks include installing a bottom plate on the vta adjustment bracket, epoxy the top plate, trim the plastic plug in the back of the tonearm such that the metal part of the arm contact the vta bracket. Once adjustments for VTA are optimized, then actually epoxy the back of the arm to the vta bracket. This approach is meant to stiffing the system. The final tweak is dependent on the nature of the counterweight arm. If it is hollow, fill it with Mortite. Again I will try to scan the document and attach since the letter has some drawings that help one visualize the tweaks.
As for the vintage of the table, Greg informed me that the original owner was a person affilated with Absolute sound and he was the second owner.
Right now I am just enjoying the table as I have recieved it but I will implement some of the ideas that others have successfully completed. My first priority will be to adjust the lead platter as it appears during the shipment process, the platter was banged up a little. Being a solid lead plate should make this pretty easy. I have already smoothed out the platter so the record lies flat and the bottom does not rub but i do hear a little rumble near the damaged section of the platter when i lower the pressure to the platter air bearing. As the pressure is increased the rumble virtually disappears.
Thanks again for the ideas. |
Piedpiper : My remark was was a tad cheeky but I do feel the early tables may have more lead & perhaps were more tricked out for the reviewers. The TT I have was auditioned & purchased by Fred Kaplan who wrote an article for TAS later selling that unit to me. I believe that I may have aquired all the options including the smokey Retro Plexyglass Cover and an origional unused shipping carton. In my case I am never satified so over the years with the help of a tool&diemaker we redesigned the head-shell, the VTA adjustment screw , the trough paddle and the lower-plate center pin. The air chambers have been redesigned via the walker method and the top plate of the air bearing in the plith was epoxyed to eliminate the small air hole. The table rests on a hand made maple block. Soon I intend to put a bottom plate on the VTA adjustment bracket and redo the feet adjusters. Sometime in the future I intend to re-balance the lead platter. Kudos to you Piedpiper I enjoy reading your recomnendations. |
Crem1,
what is special about this particular table, and yours, as opposed to other Ariadnes?
Oilmanmojo,
would you care to share the "letter from Lloyd Walker outlining potential improvements to the table"?
Also, for anyone interested, Oilmanmojo has another thread re: air compressors for air bearing TT, where I've outlined what I've done to my Signature Ariadne.
Incidentally, I just replaced the motor mount to great effect. I had had it mounted outboard atop two long bolts attached to the lead motor mount I had removed from the plinth which was attached to three Mapleshade Heavyfeet. This arrangement allowed the vibrations in the motor to resonate considerably and be passed noticably into the belt and shelf. I replaced this with a 3 inch diameter cardboard mail tube section bracketed with 1" thick cherry wood end caps with the motor screwed to the top one and a 2"x2" steel block inside acting as a weight to anchor the thing. Lead shot with a bit of sand will be replacing the steel as soon as I can lay hands on some. The difference in the sound was noticable with a lowering of the noise floor and cleaner focus and dynamics. |
Oilmanmojo : The information you have is light-years ahead of others. May I suggest that you contact Mr. Walker, as well as, Mr. Sprey for their recommendations regarding a air pump . Both are gentleman that give of their time and judgements w/o reservation , time permitting . I believe that you may have the finest Ariadne-- Next to mine off course . I have heard almost every incarnant of TT's on the market since the 1970's. Unless you are willing to spend Kilo bucks for a Ravin TT and Schorder tone-arm... Forget about it ! The Ariadne warts an'all comes damn close to to the SOTA but it has a lot S--- to deal with. Be happy you own one of the finest TT's ever made. |
You are right about the table. I have been working on getting a good compressor hooked up with it but using my shop air system the sound is pretty impressive so far. I understand what you are recommending and i will implement some of the ideas you passed on. I have noted that carefull setting of the air pressure is key to getting the platter moving freely. I have heard several comments around the higher pressure for the arm vs platter. I have also found that leveling the system is also very key in the free movement of the platter. I like the idea of cleaning the air ways especially the small ports since a little pressure drop can go a long way in this system. As I said to Greg, these hobbies can get quite consuming! thanks again for the suggestions. I am already enjoying what I am hearing and look forward to bringing this system up to even higher levels. |
Oilmanmojo: Am I correct to believe that you purchased Greg Davis's Maplenoll that was offered on audiogon & Ebay to include a letter from Lloyd Walker outlining potential improvements to the table? If so , that letter along with Piedpiper's excellent recommendations should get you on your way. However, there is one more tweek that takes the old table to new sonic heights... But only for those who feel at ease with mechanical stuff and do not freek . Again, do not attempt unless you feel completely confident with your abilty to take things apart and put them back together again. I recommend to carefully dismantel the arm to the air bushing and inject 100% Iso-Alcohol into the bushing via the air intake port located on the under-side of the base(plith). The alcohol cleans out years of gunk build-up on the interior of the bushing and the air release holes . Make sure you have several cans of compressed air to dry the bearing once the alcohol runs clear. Do the same for the air-bearing base attached to the TT plith. Quite a messy job . Better still,remove those bearings completely from the TT base (plith) before cleaning . Returning those bearings to factory specifications by removing all the accumulated oil-crud stabilizes the air flow. It's sonically worth the effort to hear the TT as Bob Dilger /Pierre Sprey intended. Once the TT is reduced to its parts its a good idea to complete Mr. Walkers recommendations to the tone-arm & top of the TT air bearing. A change in tone-arm wiring maybe in order. Pierre Sprey recommends 40ga . I used 33 ga. Cardas via Michael Percy's web site that runs directly to the Pre-Amp capped with Bullett RCA's. Lastly, a word of caution no matter who recommends it--Do Not Burnish the Interior of the TT Air Bearing in the plith. That bearing has been "hardened" ; it can not be burnished unless re-hardened afterwards. That's too tricky for me. Other than a good cleaning and plugging the air-hole on the top plate w/ epoxy , leave the top and bottom plates alone. Cheers |
Pierre at Mapleshade,and Lloyd Walker/Walker Audio can be of assistance on improving or retro-fitting the table |
At some point I'm going to construct a different arrangement for the motor. Channelling the motor vibes into the shlef is not the right way to handle this and that's what I'm currently doing. I want to make a matching corian and lead housing. I may also replace the motor with a less vibration prone one with accompanying circuitry. |
Thanks for the response. I just downloaded the manual. Also, your pics of your system is neat. Soon as the table comes in I will contact you. I like the external motor arrangement. That is very similar concept to my gyrodec. |
Check out my system and then contact me directly if you want to find out more about what I did and how and why with my Ariadne Signature. |
Go here:
http://www.vinylengine.com/library_model.php?make=Maplenoll&selected_model=Ariadne
There is a downloadable owner's manual for the Ariadne.
. |
