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New Gold Note PH 10

I had posted a question a while ago about hearing from anyone with experience comparing the Gold Note PH 10 vs. the Bryston BP2 or Clear Audio Smart V2 phono preamps.  I never heard anything back about this subject, so I decided to just simply purchase a new PH 10 and compare it against my Clear Audio preamp.  

First impressions:  As much as I love my Clear Audio Smart V2 and in particular its sound stage and imaging qualities, I have to say that the PH 10 was considerably better at detail and picking out the instruments, especially the low and mid range ones.   The Clear Audio seemed to be a little better at the upper end imaging and the sound stage.  But keep in mind this was with the PH 10 new right out of the box.

I was told the PH 10 needs at least 50 hours of run in time to open up, so I used it for two nights and left it on for several days.  After allowing it to settle in and enjoying a lot of music, I still thought the Clear Audio had a leg up on it in the sound stage/imaging department.   So I decided to listen to a well known record to me with excellent recording and a lot of dynamic range on the PH 10, then switch the wires over to the Clear Audio (which I had not heard in several days by this time), and replay the record.   YIKES!!!  it was like a blanket was draped over my speakers.  I had become so gradually accustomed to the new PH 10 that I had not noticed the slight changes going on with the break in.  When the Clear Audio was swapped back into the system (it took me about a minute to do this), it was night and day the differences.

The PH 10 was by far a much more detailed, pronounced signature with a superior sound stage and the imaging was hands down better.  I am using it with the Audio Technica AT20ss vintage MM cartridge which has an extraordinary frequency range of 5-50K hz, so I was able to take advantage of the Enhanced RIAA curve the PH 10 has.  It is pretty outstanding.   Make sure you break things in!   I love this phono preamp.
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Showing 13 responses by lewm

lewm
12,566 posts
 
Ideally, the input impedance for a "current driven" phono stage would indeed be zero ohms, but that is impossible to achieve in the real world (because the signal voltage would be completely lost to ground).  As a result, most present at least a 2-ohm impedance.  Some tube versions present 10-12 ohms.  I've been curious to try one.  Do you guys notice how every year or two there is a new fad in phono stage design?  First it was LCR. Then it was LR (very rare examples).  Lately it's been "current drive".
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Uber, I think that ("wasting" a grand) every time I buy something audio-related, because I already have SOOOO much stuff here.  (For example, I just spent slightly upwards of a grand on yet another vintage phono cartridge, when I already have 3-4 potentially superb NOS cartridges still to be auditioned.) Then the feeling goes away until next time.  I try to tell myself I will sell something in order to make up the difference, but I am too lazy ever to carry through on that thought.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
 Slim, thank you for your detailed explanation of the whest  phono product line. When you first used the numeric designation 40, I thought you had simply mistyped “30”, because I was unaware of the latest update. I can understand that if you have dual mono chassis’ as in the upper end of the whest product line, you would not necessarily need to have a power supply on a separate chassis, which would give you at least three or up to four chassis’ to contend with. If you recall, the Einstein phono stages work that way, and I don’t know how people find the shelf space for the balanced version.

Uber, I would say that you may well be happy, that is happier, with the outboard power supply on your gold note. I can conceive that would make a big difference. In fact I wondered whether slim was using the outboard power supply with his Gold Note.On the other hand, if there is something fundamentally about the sound quality that bugs you, that may not be cured by the outboard supply, and in that case you would be better off moving on.

Now that I know that the gold note has 220 pF of capacitance at its input, different peoples impression of the SQ could well be related to how that person’s cartridge reacts to the capacitance.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Chakster, Obviously, I won't be buying BOTH a Gold Note and a Whest.  In fact, I own an old Silvaweld top of the line phono stage (550SWH, I think) that I modified, probably too much.  That's probably what I will use as an extra MM phono stage, if it sounds decent.  As you may know, Silvaweld was designed and manufactured by Mr Park in Korea, the same person now behind Allnic products.  Philosophically, the Silvaweld phono is different from the Allnic phono stages, in that it uses an FET for MC gain, not a built in SUT.  But I want it for MM.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Funny you mention the outboard PS.  One of my longstanding beefs with the Whest stages is that they seemed to lack an outboard supply, which to me is a must, for the price range inhabited by the upper level Whest products.  In fact, I just took a look on Hi-Fi Shark.  There are two 30RDT SEs for sale.  One shows the rear view, which shows an IEC input for an AC cord on the back of the chassis, as well as a rocker type power switch.  This suggests there is no outboard supply, despite the fact that you say there is, even for the less expensive 3 (and I do believe you).  But I am confused by Whest product line.  What am I looking at?
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Exactly which of the many versions of the west phono stage do you have? I know it is a Whest three, but there seems to be more than one version of the three. I am open minded to the whest , as well as to the gold note. If I were to go ahead and make a purchase.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Reading between the lines, you seem to be saying that despite the high capacitance at the input of the gold note, you are very happy with the combination of the AT20SS with a gold note . It would be interesting to see if you like the combination of AT20 SS and the whest phono stage better. Or to learn how it changes the total balance.

I own several expensive low output MC cartridges and several rare vintage moving magnet and moving iron type cartridges. Price, technology, and year of manufacture  are not guidelines to sonic excellence. If I were moving to a deserted island and could take only one cartridge, it would probably be one of the older vintage models.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
I have a feeling they add some capacitance in parallel with the input, to prevent oscillation of the input gain device, which is probably a wideband transistor.  And both tubes and solid state devices develop some inherent additional capacitance related to their operation.  Thanks for the clarification.  Do you use your Gold Note with that AT20SS?
lewm
12,566 posts
 
I see that it says 220pF in the specs, but look at page 9 of the owners manual, in the troubleshooting section. There at the top of the page you will see “330pF”. I agree this is in conflict with the specs. Even 220pF is high-ish before adding capacitances due to the ICs. Of course, please don’t get me wrong, the most important thing is that it sounds good to you and to a great majority of the owners.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
 I am getting interested in this phono stage, as a secondary unit because I need more phono inputs. I went to the gold note website to read more about it. There they say that the phono inputs present a fixed capacitance of 330 pF . That seems rather high as a starting point, especially when you consider that the phono cables are likely to add 50 to 100 pF. That’s a fairly high total capacitance load on either an MC or an MM. Any comments? Have any of you owners questioned gold note  about this capacitative load? Also, inside the unit, do they use discrete transistors or integrated circuits? Someone said something somewhere about an optional tube-based output stage. Yet I see nothing about that on their website. Am I just wrong in thinking such a thing exists?
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Makes very good sense not to run the audio at the same time you run radio transmitters.  You know what I was getting at. 
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Slim
loading MMs is about both C and R.  Optima are different for every cartridge or certainly every brand of cartridge. So for sure I would not say that every single MM cartridge will sound better at 100 K ohms. I have found that my old Grado TLZ and my Grace cartridges definitely do sound better with 100 K load and no added capacitance, over and above the cable capacitance and the input capacitance of the phono stage. Testimony from others like Chakster and Raul leads me to believe that 100 K might be best for the majority of MM cartridges, but certainly I do not know that for a fact.  Also, it’s not only about opening up the high end. The entire audio frequency bandwidth  comes through with a greater clarity for cartridges that prefer 100 K to 47K. Like I said if you keep lowering resistance below 47K there is the risk of rolling off your high frequency response. Even your own testimony suggests that the beneficial effect you perceive at 22K may be related to rolling off hf. Like a tone control.

Thanks for the clarification regarding your grounding system. Even with your more detailed description, however, I am not sure it’s a good idea to attach your phono stage ground and your general audio ground to the ground system you use for your other devices. I guess only your experience can vouch for that.
lewm
12,566 posts
 
Slim,  it’s fine to use a 22K load resistor on your MM cartridges, but just realize that you are probably rolling off the high frequencies below 20 kHz. Also, I was not sure what you were saying about the ground cable you have around your house. Whether it’s made of copper or not, I would not think it’s a good idea to have Audio equipment share its ground system with RF generators, as you seemed to indicate. Or did I read it wrong? Like Chakster, I have found that many of the best MM cartridges sound best with a 100 K load. But unlike Chakster, I have no problem using a 47K load, when the preamplifier presents that load as a matter of course. Yes, everything is a little bit better at 100 K but it’s not a deal killer to use 47K, in my system, to my ears. Maybe that’s just me being too lazy to get out the soldering iron and change the resistors. I also agree with Chakster that the nude vishay  TXresistors are THE resistors to use for phono loading. Cheaper Caddock TF020 resistors from Michael Percy are a close second.
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