New Esoteric P02 D02

Eli, how are things proceeding with the P02/D02 combo? G.

Eli, that's fabulous.... Can't wait to read about your impressions! Saluti, G.

G, I got a call from dealer today... Units are here. Almost 2 weeks in advance of expected delivery. Good! So tomorrow I will hopefully have them home installed.

Will share first impressions soon. More on how they look, features and similar than sound, as it will take a while I guess till i sounds decent...

Best
Eli

I would much rather trust my memory for comparation with the 03s...

We will see. I expect some improvement, but not major. The 03s sound very good i dont see how the new can be that much better. For me the quality USB input to a world clase DAC did it. Been holding the adition of some files playback system to this release. All the systems I tried in the past were very expensive, to put on top of the Esoteric cost and did not got the same quality as with the 03s.

So if the 02s are just somewhat better, with the USB input into the D02 to get very high quality file playing will be worth it. Not much more expensive than keeping the 03s and buying a Linn klimax or similar and will sound better.

But regarding the 02s vs 03s for just CD or SACD playing, I do expect a gain but nothing like the one I had from gong to the top of their one box system into the separares.

We will see....

Eli, very selfishly, I hope you have the opportunity of comparing directly the old with the new *grins!* G.

Will do. My 03s are posted for sale at the forum. Hopefully someone will take them before new arrives but if not, will be able to compare directly and post side by side before my dealer takes them.

Thank you Eli, I am looking forward to reading your comparative observations. Guido

Well G, in 2 or 3 weeks I will be able to tell you first hand.... And how it compares to the 03s, and others.

Thanks Topo for reply. Just wondering.

I am not surprised Teac or Esoteric are showing a lost at the financials currently. Like any other mainly export driven company, the slowdown in Europe and US, still the larger markets in absolute terms, are killing them. Also being Japan based, the Yen is also playing against them big time. Add both things and that could explain. Very widespread effect afecting export driven companies in Asia. Do not have the figure but would guess 60% or more of their sales comes from exports to US and Europe. That hurts any income est. In cureent enviroment. Look at Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer and the likes. i think very similar case.

I am not US based and so do not know Tim or how they work there. Just hope service remains the same for yuo guys.

I honestly could not care if Mr. Crable were a History major instead... I have known Tim personally since the early part of the last decade, and applaude that Esoteric corporate has made the enlightened business decision to entrust a consummate professional with real world experience of Tim's caliber with driving and growing customer-facing aspects of the Teac Esoteric operation in north America.

On a related topic, it is of course quite possible that K-01 and P-02/D-02 may well be swansongs, or at lease may constitute one of the last flagship products from Esoteric to sport spinning motors... Whether we like it or not, and I for one abhor the very idea, the era of the silvery disk may be nearing a gloriously nostalgic sunset. I fully expect that the number of new disk-spinning products by major manufacturers emerging over the near to medium horizon is bound to be dwindling to asymptotic quietude. Until such time however, my quest for the silvery-disk-playing nirvana continues unabated.

Hence the topical question beckons unchanged... How does the P02/D02 combo sound? How does it stack against its competitors? Frantic audiophilic minds want to know!

G.

I am just a high end consumer. I am not in the business. I am actually a commodities broker who loves great audio. As for Tim, I met him once at a RMAF show and again at Axpona last Aprl in Atlanta. He is a very good man but his background is service and technical support. That is a fact if you look at his profile on LinkedIn. Hopefully he will sell a lot for Esoteric in the USA and maybe grow their business to a wider dealer base. I would assume that is why he was assigned to Esoteric. The financial statements of any public company speak for themselves, as does my freind at Luxman. As I said earlier, I own Esoteric and like the brand very much. My statements on this formum are all based on fact, not speculation or bias.

Topo, was wondering,

Are you in the audio business or audio electronic business, or have any economic related interesr?

Thanks
Eli

Thank you Topofthelineaudio , your friend at Luxman is of course completely unbiased about the future of his competitors.... And thank you for the subtly condescending remarks about Mr. Crable's credentials..... So exquisitely professional of you.

If you type in "TEAC Japan Stock Value" into Google search it will come up with the information I mentioned from your choice of Business Week, Bloomberg and the Tokyo stock exchange. Business Week and Bloomberg even let you switch between English and Japanese and you can directly select their financials from tabs. For their last fiscal year end they lost about $17 million dollars. Rumor mill says Panasonic looked at an aquisition but then decided it is not worth it. I still own and love Esoteric but my friend at Luxman tells me after the P02, D02 and K series, they will only update their DACs. No other new hardware planned. Some of their DACs are still 16-48 and 24-96.

Guideo,

Have you looked at TEAC's financials lately? They are losing big bucks. I have also heard that Tsuda and Ohmachi, the heart and soul of Esoteric worldwide are now retired and were never replaced. Tascam Japan and Tascam USA run all CE and all Esoteric now. My freind in Japan told me they laid off over 140 people in the Japan and USA operations combined, maybe more. I was told the remaining R&D guys now report in to Tascam management. Tim Crable is an OK guy but he is really a service manager they recently "dumped" Esoteric on. There are major doubts, even as far as Japan, if they will stay in the USA, maybe get sold, etc. Their stock in Japan has fallen from 51 yen in one year to about 25 yen. So, 50% of it's valus is gone in a year. Check out their declining chart value at: http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=6803:JP. Like we all agree the products to date are great but for the future, I still say buyer beware. (My friend works at Luxman so he is in a good position to know).

Eli, at RMAF in Denver Esoteric was live.... and doing very well, I should say. Tim Crable is the new Esoteric US sales and marketing manager. Tim was previously manager of technical services, and is incredibly qualified to head Esoteric sales and marketing.... He has deep technical and user knowledge of the product line, is extremely respected by consumers and dealers... and has a true flair for getting visitors excited about Esoteric at shows.

It is not particularly relevant whether Esoteric continues to operate as an independently run division of TEAC, or only as a brand within the TEAC umbrella. From the wealth of TEAC/Esoteric products being featured at RMAF, and the general public excitement at the show, I could see no evidence of the Esoteric brand and products going away any time soon. G.

Really? But they are very active in releasing new products, the company is very active. More than ever I would say.

Do you mean that they closed the US branch of Esoteric? If so what are they planning, going partnership with a local importer?

In Europe they never had an Esoteric Company per se. They work through official importers by country, or set of countries. Their units get serviced if needed directly in Japan. This way of working here is very good. Service is great. Only downside are the long waitings from and to Japan, although never needed service in my case in all the Esoteric i owned in the past. Once I ask for a new P03 to compare the spinning noise of the transport and they sent me a new unit. Had both at home to keep the lowest noise one. The service still the same up to date in Europe.

I guess they are cost coting in distribution or something... Giving up the importer margin but fixing the costs of servicing the market there, no? In any case, sorry to hear.

You find nothing on the USA site beacuse the USA Esoteric staff, except for the service department, has been laid off. When I called in for some pre-sales information on the P-02/D-02, I was told that Tascam has taken over sales and marketing for Esoteric and all other CE in the USA. Then I dug a bit deeper by speaking with a freind in Japan, ...it seems that Esoteric Company is now only a small sales team to sell Esoteric into the Japanese market. The global Esoteric Company no longer exists. My friend currently works for another Japanese CE company so I guess that is how he found out? Sounds like what they did in the 1990s for the USA customer. Make a spash and then leave the market. Buyer beware.

Thanks. But can you buy them there already? While you ask, could you find out if the 03s are still current. Seems so, and that they just positioned the 02 s above, but not sure.

I japan web page they have both showing.

Thanks
Eli

Eli, I suspect we will start seeing more English language information on P02/D02 around CES 2012 in January.... But next time I talk to Esoteric USA I will ask them when English language info may be posted to the US site.

Been checking. These have been out for a while now and are for sale (at least in Europe). Assume in the US as well. But no info on them anywhere I can find on the web. No reviews or feedback form anyone or info beyon Japan Esoteric web page.

Anyone know why this may be? Or where to get more info in English (lots of things but only and Japanese and I'm not exactly fluent...

thanks
Eli

It does. Thanks Alex. I guess there will be more info out there soon.

Hi Eli,

Esoteric claims some new type of digital interface between transport and DAC that includes non-PLL type of synchronization that is much more desirable than the usual PLL, so I think the P-02 compliments the D-02 in that respect, although I am not sure whether the actual VRDS transport in the P-02 is superior to the P-03. Please note that the well known 10MHz Rubidium external clocks use PLLs and VCOs which, in my view, are inferior to their new synchronization technology. FYI, Ed Metiner and Andreas Koch did a similar non-PLL sync even in their older transport/DAC combos. Of course, I still feel that the asynchronous approach is even better, and use it in all of my products, but that is just me. :-) Everything has good and bad sides, I guess.

Hope this helps!

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev

Thanks Alex,

Do you think upgrading just the DAC unit and keeping the transport, D02/P03, makes more sense than upgrading both components, given the price?

Hi Eli,

Yes, in my view, the P-02/D-02 represent a truly significant advancement compared to the P-03/D-03.

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev

HI Alex, considering how familiar you are with Esoteric digital gear, what's your initial view on these 2. Do you think they represent a significant step up from the 03s?

Thanks
Eli

Thank you so much Alex and Eli, truly fascinating.... I hope someone will be able to listen to these creatures soon in some meaningful environment, and will report some initial findings. G.

This is the D-02 page here: D-02 link

The AK4399 DACs are still used but, just like in the K-01, with Esoteric DSPs performing different digital filter algorithms. The AK4399 works in "digital filter bypass mode".

Best,
Alex Peychev

Hi G, its been a while. Good to hear from you.

Yes all the info is out.

This is the link to the pdf with main characteristic. Is from a Spanish online store, but doc is in English.

http://www.supersonido.es/productos/documentos/Documento1510.pdf

And here the link to the japan web in English. This is the one of the D02, but if you go to products can find the P 02 as well. Overall much more info than in the US web

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/d02/indexe.html

Prices are out in Europe (atleast in Spain). They still sell the 03s and just position the new ones a step above. The retail price here for the 2 units increases in 10.000 euros (so like 14.000 USD). The 03s retail for 15.900 euro per unit and the 02s for 20.900 per unit. I guess the rise will be similar in the US.

Many new features re conversion. Whole new set of DACs. Think are the same as the new Ks, but 8 per channel, and lot of care placed to power Suply units, The D02 is like the 01s in the sense it has a dual mono configuration, altough in one single box. Has a USB input. New clocking more accurate and isolated...

Looks very good...

Eli, according to what I understood at in the Esoteric suite at RMAF, the P-02/D02 combo may be replacing P-03/D-03.... but I am not 100% sure. The devices feature very advanced technologies, amongst which is 35 bit DAC. Cost in the US may be approximately $50K.... Aledgedly they have been released, but I have not heard/seen them yet, and they are not yet listed on the US Esoteric site.

If you can, please post the link to the English version of the Esoteric Japan page where P-02/D-02 are featured.

Best, G.