Colekat: Either clock is a major improvement in my experience too...glad you enjoy the difference. What clock did you wind up choosing? I did a lot of experimentation with various clocking frequencies matrixed with upsampling rates and have a combination I like very much; if you want to talk through the options, drop me an Audiogon email and I'll be glad to jump on the phone and talk. |
Hey Everyone, I've had the clock in my system for a few days and am totally blown away at the difference it has made. The clock has really elevated my listening experience to high point. Music is as real as I've have ever heard it in my listening room. In a word... Smooth, and it hasn't even broken in yet! |
I ran into a little snag, I ordered a .5 meter clock cable, and I have .5 AES/EBU cables, so I can' t configure the clock to be within distance to reach with the cables I have. I ordered new clock cables yesterday, should see them by Friday! I am looking forward to adding a clock, then adding a Powercell, then new cords, and adding a new C-02 preamp into the mix. Wow, exciting times at the Colekat household.
I was listening to tunes yesterday and the sound was great, one of those
" good" days. Thinking about the potential of this system, I have four new changes or combinations of some changes. When its a good day , it's hard to imagine it can sound better. In the States, I definately notice better sound on weekends, definately power grid issues.
Anyway, I have alot to look forward too and to listen for! I'll keep you posted! |
That's a good deal. Given them 2 or 3 days and you will now. If you can first plug and try the powercell alone. Listen for 3 or 4 days and asses on it alone. And then plug the CTS power cords to be able to tell which does what. The power cell in my experience has a different effect altogether than the cables. They may add to the equation or not. But they are 2 different set of products each doing its thing, and you may like one or other or both. |
Eelii, I ordered a trial with the Element Series CTS Power Cords and a Powercell 10 SE MK III. When they arrive I will have 4 weeks to audition them in my system, if I like them, I send back the trial cords and Synergistic drop ships the new ones to me. I figure I won't need 4 weeks, probably a couple of days to settle in and I should get a feel for them in a week or so. I know with the Synergistic stuff you either love 'em or hate 'em. I'll keep you posted. |
Powercell I have the Galileo I think MKII. It is good. Do not have any experience with the CLS power cords.
I bought the CLS speaker cables and had for trial the CLS interconnects balanced.
I no longer have the SC and sold them not too long after. And decided not to buy the interconnects. They were good, but the sound is different in the element series than it was in their Tesla line, and I actually liked the sound of the old Tesla line better. I assume is very system specific. The Powercell I still keep it though, and although I will be trying a new power conditioner soon, I think I will keep the power cell, since it gives a very particular presentation that I may want to revisit every now and then.
SR has a very characteristic sound in my opinion. There are things they do very well. As said it is a very particular music presentation that you have to like. If you like it, you will love it. Read this review: I find it very interesting and actually accurate. What the reviewer reports is very close to what I hear as well. I think it can be of help to you.
http://www.highfidelity.pl/@main-357&lang=en
In any case as always I would advise for you to listen first. Assume you have heard them in your system? Those are easily available for trial in the US. I think even SR has a trial program for the US, which is a good thing and shows confidence in their products.
Hope this helps |
Eelii, I am commiting to the Synergistic Research Element Series CLS PCs and Powercell 10 SE MK III. .Will place my order tomorrow, take a look a let me know what you think... Taik to you soon! |
Tom, I know... I am based in Spain and pay them in Euro. Not sure in the US. Their old top model was priced around 5K USD I think, but you see some second hand of the old model at good discounts. Not all the time but they can be found. So I guess there will be some 9500 in a while. Hey, is not like the 02s sound bad with other power cords you now that... All I say is that if you have some PCs you are happy with but you are thinking in upgrading right away, it may be worth to take your time and listen to these along other candidates. And then asses if it is worth it or not given the price. You may find that it is not, or the other way around, and decide to wait to find them second hand or whatever before upgrading to other less expensive but not as good. |
Hey Eelii, You are making things very difficult, how much are these cords? And where do you live? I look firward to the full report! Thanks Tom |
Ok so after listening for 5 days to the 3 mexcel PC9500 at my P02/D02/G01 this much I can say. These are incredible power cords. Easely the best I have ever heard. At least in my system. Not going to enter into all the details becouse you have read them already in any given review when a reviewr wants to say any product is the best ever... All the topics apply to the max extend... Just two notes. If you want to know how deep, how much impact, and how controlled, defined and realistic you esoteric can play, you need to try these out. It is brutal at some stages and very realistic. Second my advise to anyone thinking on expending money on power cords, would be to try these first.
I am going to leave a comment from a industry designer of high end gear that shared with me before I tried them. It proved very accurate, and although not the typical overdone bunch of claims, it may be useful.
"I have to admit I do not know a better power cord as the 9500 up to now and I tested a lot)
The sound is faster, more dynamic and has on the other hand more black background. (The range from silent to full music is much more)
Tonal overtones from instruments are more vivid and the cable sounds sweet - but not to sweet- it is very neutral on the other hand.
Details in the music are much easier to perceive."
Yes that is the case and then more...
Cant wait till I get the next two for amps. Will report what an extra 2 adds. They have gotten lost somewhere with the courier... |
Yes. Do go step by step. I think considering you have one BNC already and are used to the sound of it, it will be cheaper and also easier to asses the impact of the clock by isolating changes.
Once you get used to it, you can better much better identify digital cable changes, while also you recover from the expense :-)
Interconnects may make sense to be your next cable upgrade. And PC. I am assesing right now the 9500s in the 3 digital. Being listening for 2 days now. Do not want to jump ahead of time so will be reporting findings in a couple of days more. But they are very good. How good I will share soon. |
The Clock arrived so quick I didn't think of the cable right away. I ordered the matching Wireworld Platinum Eclipse BNC, thats what I have on the DAC/Transport , I can't see mixing the clock cables, but I did want to try the Acrolink/ Mexcels 6100s. I think I'm going to spend the momey on the interconnects before I change clock cables, it's not like the Wireworlds are bad, in fact they are there best cable and I loke them alot as ICs. Well anyway, I'll keep you posted, and thanks dor the help and support! |
Congrats Tom!!!! I remember my clock did arrive also well in advance estimated delivery time.
You have 3 pairs of terminals out of the clock A, B and C. They are A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2. I did some test initially connecting Transport to A1 and DAC to B1, and closing all other outputs, or connecting transport and DAC to both A1 and A2, and closing all Bs and Cs, outputs. This last combination was advised by esoteric and so that is how I have it. I thought I heard differences between the 2 ways of connecting, but it was during break in time so that could have been. Esoteric said that the 02s are considered a system together so better to connect both to the As outputs. Very important to close the other 4 outputs Bs and Cs.
As to the mode, you will have to change both transport and DAC and set the clock menu: Use direct master clock link at 22.5792MHz.
You will love it since moment one. Will improve with time, I assume, but I remember I did like it very much right out of the box.
Get a cable!!!!!! |
Eelii- my clock has arrived, I'm picking it up tomorrow... Any advice on initial hook-up? Still short an BNC 75ohm cable for the transport hook-up. I still excited when something new is going into my system! |
Eelii, Awesome, can't wait to hear your findings ! Keep us posted |
No sorry, the Pure power 3000+.
It is a canadian manufacturer.
I already have the PC9500. Will report findings soon. Have them in the DC, transport and DAC.
Will have another 2 for amps tomorrow or day after. |
Eelii- Which conditioner is the PS? Are you referring to the PS Audio Perfectwave Power Plant? |
Tom, I use SR power cell. I like the sound with the esoteric plugged to it. However I am waiting for a PP 3000 unit that I want to try since I have heard very good things of it. It may take a while to get it here, but the concept of protection, unlimited power, and battery support is very appealing, plus I have had excellent feedback on it. Will report on it, although still do not have confirmation of delivery date.
PS I use to have the PPP I think it was called. I did not like the sound of it too much in my system. To my hears it sounded better directly to the line. Although that was a while back and not with the 02s, but with the 03s. I do feel the 02s do benefit from a good power conditioner, but as always with these, it can make things better or worse. So I guess some models make them improve from connecting to the wall and some make them worse.
In the case of power cell is a bit of a trade off. You get better dynamics although music is a bit less "fluent" sort of speak. Overall I do prefer it with the power cell. With the PPP it was the other way around. We will see with the PS unit. |
I used the Focus 20/20s for quite a while, then added FocusHDs to the system and 2.5 years ago changed up to a pair of Focus SEs with ever-improving enjoyment and results at each steps! My next stop is AERIS with the Xilica processor though the decision between AERIS and Whisper is a difficult one. I'd suggest you hear AERIS and also the new Whisper; you will be very happy either way! |
Hi Zephyr, I was look back at this Excellent Thread and saw you are using Legacy Focus 20/20s. I have a pair I've been listening to for 10 years and they still sound great. Definately a great American speaker, and super bang for the buck. I have them in my Family room system with a Bryston electronics, and an Esoteric X01/D2 for multi channel music, preyyt good system.
Anyway, are you still using the Legacy's as your main system speakers, or did you move on to the Whispers, as you noted? I am interested on moving to the new Legacy's with the Wavelaunch, any advice? Tom |
Eelii, I am in the process of auditioning Stage III Concepts PCs, I will use Minotaurs on the DAC and Transport and will use the Zyklops on my PS Audio PS 10. I also think the PS 10 may be inhibiting the performance of the Esoterics, as they have such good power supplies. What are you using for line condition and surge protection?
Just wanted to hear what you think! Have you heard the Stage IIIs ? There are a little pricey, but are at the top of the food chain in terms of science and design... Oh ya , and price!! |
On the use of the G-03X clock over the G-0s or newer G-0Rb, i had the G-0s rubidium clock for several years an enjoyed it very much with my P03U and D03; for various reasons, I had to sell the G-0s clock a couple years ago and spent a while with no clock in the system. I later had an opportunity to add a G-03X or G-0s back into the system; I took a chance and put the G-03x into the system and found that it gives me what I want in terms of a good amount of clocking accuracy coupled with a bit more musical presentation with a bit less of the analytical edge that I had with the G-0s. I'm not dinging the Rb clocks in the least; for my ears I was able to achieve what I wanted with the G-03x and think it is worth consideration... |
One more question regarding configuration of menus for the 02s.
When using only the P02 as input for the D02. In the P02 configuration menu under up convert, you choose whatever alternative you prefer. Do you leave the up convert configuration option in the D02 as "original" or do you use the same alternative as with the P02. Or it does not make any difference.
I remember this was a doubt I had when I first got the units. I left it at the time as Original. Now playing with the menu for the XLR signal configuration I just saw this again and was wondering what other are doing. |
I will surely update you on the P9500. I am very much looking forward to hear these with esoteric. Should be with me mid next week or so. Not clear still if i will buy a 6300 II or not. I may or leave it for later. Also want to compare with the old one.
Tom, you can be sure you will like it better with clock. It did make a big dif in my system in all areas.
The 01s I am sure it will be better. How much still to be seen. But I think it makes more sense to upgrade gear so no component is clearly infeior to the rest of system or that is what you will get. Or at least the improvement will be much less than it should. Myself, the next upgrade I have in mind is the amps. The 01s, besides price, the problem is where to place all those boxes. Is 2 extra boxes you need to make space for. And also no streaming capabilities for me is a big miss. We will hear anyway more on these in the future. |
I was on the Esoteric sight for latest updates on new D1/P1. The best I can make out translating, based on the D-02 at $23500.00 retail would put the new set at $86500.00 . Thats 2650000 yen for the transport, 1250000 yen for the DAC x 2 = 5150000 yen for the set .
Wonder how it sounds compared to the D-02/P-02 combo? I definately perfer the style of the D-02/P-02 over the new ones. |
Hi Eelii,
I am also curious on hearing differencies of Mexcel cables on clocking unit. I was spectical on cable differencies for clocking unit but audio hobby has always kind of tricky surprises. I know that esoteric products are designed for Acrolink Mexcel cables..I would be happy to hear your findings with Mexcel cables.
Colecat: Esoterics needs more than 400-500 hours to settle, as far as I know you have to burn same outboard..I made burning on dual XLR outboard and music becamed more detailed and less digital artifacts, I am on 700-800 hours and still have impression that sound is still developing. One thing that I am sure of power cables made terrific differencies on mostly transport.. |
I am very interested in your findings. As for the comparison of the Mexcels and WWs, i'm not so sure that comparison was ever made! Thats what I was saying about soliciting as a dealer, I tend to ignore any reviews by dealers of components and cables, they always are biased.
I hope to see the G-01 very soon, and I will order the 6100 BNC for the clock connections, give it some time to settle in and then I'll check out the 6300 II for my DAC to C-02 connection. The C-02 is just starting to open up. These Esoterics need a terrifically long time to really start to shine. My DAC/Transport took 400 to 500 hours before the
sound was constantly good.
Thanks for your help, I look forward to the change with the clock and new cables! |
Hi Tom,
yes it is good to see it is gaining momentum again.
Yes I understand what you say regarding the WW recommendations. I have no experience at all with them. I assume they are very good but have no idea. One thing that I found strange was the claim the 6300 was compared side by side with the WW and that WW was way better. Not saying it may not be the case, I have no idea. But under such configuration of K01 and G01, that comparation is not possible since 6300 does not have a BNC termination as option. The top BNC model of mexcel is the 6100. Maybe just a mistake, and it was 6100 vs WW, don't know. In any case each one has to take advise as what it is worth for.
Regarding Mexcel it is also my understanding that Mexcel is used internally in these units, so even more reasons to try. YOu may like or not what you hear. That is a different thing. But if I had to try 3 brands from scratch, mexcel would be for sure one of them for this gear.
I have experience with SR, but more with their line tesla and not so much with the elements. I do like the Teslas. The digital I used before mexcel was actually their top digital model of the old Tesla line. I liked better mexcel when I tried and decided to change, although the SR were good too.
PCs I actually still use their SR HD; the top model of the old tesla line for digital application power cords. To tell you the truth I have done very little tests on PC with these units so far. I like the current HD I am using and so my priorities where elsewhere. However in a few days I am going to have the new Mexcel PC 9500 to try a the 3 esoteric units. Will report my findings if they are of your interest. |
Hey Eelii - Nice to this thread active again. I have the WireWorld Platinums Series 7 between the DAC and Transport now. I like them alot , but am compelled to try the Mexcels. I believe as you have stated, the Esoterics have been voiced and designed using the Mexcels, and I would be foolish to not give them a listen. I'm going to try the Synergetic Research Element PCs also. I have on good word that the Esoterics behave very well with the SRs. I have never tried active cables before, this will be a first! Any thoughts?
Also, on the other site, there is a fondness for WireWorld cabling, espiecally from the Senior Members. I know the mark up on cables is crazy, and I hope that the forum is not being used to solicite sales. I would like to believe people are sharing there honest opinion on the chemistry between components and leave the salesmanship to private conversation! |
Regarding the use of the G-0rB clock: a cheaper way to go is to get the G-03X and drive it with the Stanford Research PERF10. This solution seems to do the trick |
BTW, I am sure Alex could give a very good tech. Explanation of why this is, if he is around, and would be appreciated. |
Yes, it is very much like you describe that I find. Also I am finding tha the choose of desired cables for the analog out of the Dac changes. With output at transport at 6 I liked better siltech. But with it at 0db i like better mexcel 6300 there. These are faster cables, not so relaxed as siltech, so I guess it gets you closer to a middle point or something like that.
Need to listen more since this is a surprise kind of. Would not have expected any change from just raising or lowering the output gain of balanced in transport besides the vol difference. Actaully havent touch that in almost 2 years... But it does. Cheers |
Hi Eelii08,
Thanks for your kind response. I agree with you that at 0 dB, the sound is more relaxed and pleasant at low level listening. But there is a loss of dynamics when it comes to orchestral crescendoes. So I guess we can pick and choose depending on what we are listening to and when, like late at night. Cheers!
|
Hi Tom, we are having this conversation in parallel :-)
Did not realize this thread was so active again. ON cables you now already, right? Just check for the new models II of 6300 if you are going for them. Or if the same is coming out for the 6100 which I haven't heard but I think they could soon.
The kid inside you will be very happy indeed! congrats.
No is the other way around. I do like 0db better. At least for now. Need to listen more, but I used to play at +6db and changed to 0db to try. Was surprised with how different it sounded. In theory it should have only affected signal level but it does change the sound footprint. I find at 0db the sound is more pleasant and engaging. relaxed in a good way. more analog like if you want. Fantastic both ways though may be a matter of likes or system matching. For me now I am enjoying very much the sound at 0db.
For low volume listening I think clearly the best is 0db. |
Hi Jon2020
Actually no. In my case it is the other way around. i like it better with xlr set at 0db. Need to listen some more since the diference is actualy not small. I am surprised. Only diference should be in the higher or lower signal coming out but sound print does change. Not sure I understand why.
My tought is that it may not be better or worse per se but depending on preamp and what it likes better to see or similar. In my case the sound character you would expect from the ARC ref 40 ann. seems more evident. Also being able to take vol. higher at preamp may make a dif. Not sure what it is. But need to listen more and will try to asses better. |
No tubes in the chain...while I've heard and love some of the aspects of tube equipment, I've focused on getting my solid-state-only setup as far along as possible. |
Hi Zepher, do you have any tubes in the chain? I agree with you on the Analysis Plus Cables, they are hard to beat for the price!!! |
Thanks for the reminder to you both; I also used Analysis Plus Digital Oval2 cables for clocking for a little over a year with very good results. Apologies for leaving these off my earlier list. In terms of Price to Performance ratio for clocking options, the Digital Oval2 is a fantastic choice... |
Hal123, I use Analysis Plus Silver Oval ICs on alot of my system, but I use WireWorld Platinum Eclipse Series 7 ICs and BNC clock between the DAC and Transport. Definately great cables! I believe I can get better performance if I can get the Power Cords right, that is where I believe I can improve. I use Shunyata ZiTrons but I want to try the Mexcel cables. After reading eelii008 , he is very confident that the Esoteric cables perform best. So thats my next move, although there not cheap... But this is not a hobby for the penny pincher, thats for sure!! |
Hi Colecat,
I am using Analysis Plus Digital Oval BNC cable for clocking. I actually didnt tried more expensive cables but analysis plus digital oval cable gave me satisfastory results for that and cost resonably less. For digital connection cable makes difference yes but for BNC cables clocking maybe my last think to consider for upgrade. I heart good things for Mexcel-Esoteric cables, but this investment is kind of over spending for me now. I obtained best results on connecting both on same output with 176 Khz, on some CD's interestingly 44 kHz give more detailed sound, but setting on 176 Khz give allround depth and well defined soundstage. I tried different power cords for clocking unit but heard no difference, Esetoric also says the unit is not sensible on AC power. If anybody have different experience please let us inform, only think that I observed clocking unit is sensible on temperature, locate your unit far from your amplifier, unit must placed on a fresh area far from amplifiers mostly tubes, and I let clock unit open all the time. Regards |
I've used the following for clock cables with very good results; Audioquest Eagle Eye BNC:BNC, Tara 0.8 Digital BNC:BNC with separate HFX Ground Station, VH Audio Digital Cable BNC:BNC and over the past 2 years, the Kubala-Sosna Emotion BNC:BNC cables. I'm sticking with the K-S cables as they are the best I've found at this point given those I've tried. I've also heard very good things about the Mexcel-Esoteric cables.... |
Hi Hal123, I look forward to getting the clock after reading this thread. What cabling are you using? I hear Esoterics 6100 BNC's are great with the clock ! Any advice greatly appreciated, Thanks Tom |
Hi Colecat,
Congrats on your G-01, I use G-0 rubidium model and I liked a lot. Most significant upgrate |
Hi eelii008, I made the move on the G-01 clock, after reading your thread on the clock, I'm like a kid on on Christmas morning, can't wait. I have the Xlr out at 0db, what advantage did you notice with the output at 6db. I am using the Esoteric C-02 as my pre, and find the 0db output is better for low level listening. What are you current IC's and Clock cables, and how are connected into your clock. thanks for any help, great thread! Tom. |
Hi all. Does anybody used power conditioners with their esoteric Black Noise filters with good results but dealer warned me on power fluctuations problems since esoteric doesnt have AC fuse inside, suggest me to use ps audio products for AC protection and voltage stability. |
Hi Eelii08,
It is interesting that you mentioned about the xlr configuration. I find +6 dB setting in my system with a JR Capri S2 preamp driving the K -01 player better in every way. Is this your experience too for the combo?
|
Yes it is. Big difference for the good in all aspects. Wrote about it back in the post.
Also, just noticed. There is a big difference in reproduced sound depending on how the xlr gain is configured in the D02 if you are using preamp. 0db which is factory default or +6db. |
Hey Pharma007, what is your experience using the Grb clock with the D-02/ P-02? I have a great deal on the G-01 clock waiting for me to snap it up. I have found no info anywhere on the D-02/P-02 with the clock. Whats your take on the clock, is worth it ? |
Thank you very much for this.....I still have the P02/D02 on my wish list for the future! |
At last I compared transports as well. I did the test without upsampling by using d02 dac and with short delay filter 1, clock was G0rb.
P02 sounded more open, vocals breathed outside the speakers more and overall there was slightly more detail with cds compared to p01 vu. P01 vu was a bit darker. On the other hand p02 sounded a bit leaner with less body and it was slightly forward overall. This forward presentation projected vocals more in to the room. P02 was revealing a bit more in the upper mid and treble.
The new transport during loud passages was able to separate voices a bit more than the p01 vu. As for the sacds the difference was smaller.
Also p02 has the advantage to upsample to DXD (354khz or 8x)or 48bit which I didnt test. |
