I have now reached a point where I am happy with my system. I settled on the Spectron monoblock amps with Vcaps and Bybees and a Joule Electra preamp. The Savoys now have the best bass and mid range I have heard from them. The combo just does it for me. I don't think I will be changing amps or preamp anytime soon. |
My dealer recommends Digital Amplifier Company if going with Class D. IHO, it's best Class D amp on the market ... best Spectron, Rowland ... You can bridge 2 amps so it has enough power to drive any speaker.
It mates well with tube preamps. In auditions, customers keep asking where is the SET amp and couldn't believe it's a Class D amp.
Digital Amplifier Company only sells direct with a 30 days return policy and he gets no commission so just a strong recommendation.
http://www.digitalamp.com/
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The Spectron amp/Joule preamp combination has many advocates. I have not heard it. The Spectron is class D, and will run cool. The Pass certainly will get quite warm.
What is your budget for the amp and preamp? |
Coxhaus,
It has to be north of MA, the Power 3 is too much in the hot humid summer months :-) ... great as a heater with music in the winter though :-) Currently looking into a quick warm up and cool running SS amp for the summer including several Class D (I need to keep an open mind) recommended by friends.
I had a SF Line 3SE+. After the SE+ mod, I was so please with the results that I shipped my Power 3's to Chris for the same treatment. Last year I decided to downside into a SS integrated and sold the Line 3. Realizing can't live with just an integrate so slowly wasting more $$ ... I meant rebuilding my system again.
I just replaced all my Synergistic Apex bi-wire spkr and xlr ICs with ASI Liveline. I much prefer the ASI in MY system. |
I love that comment: "I had a weak moment..." It happens in this hobby. :) |
Coxhaus, I am assuming that you bought new speakers?
If so, they will need many hours of playing before you can evaluate them.
I have a 25' X 17' room with Andra 2 speakers. I am using a Pass Labs X350.5 and it has plenty of power for the Andra's.
I would think the Pass X600.5 would be even better. The older Pass 350 and 600 were not as warm sounding as the new .5 series so maybe thats what your friend had.
Anyway, I agree they need power to sound there best, but they also need break in time.
By the way, I own Synergistic Reasearch cables and preferred them over the Valhalla's.
Make sure you pull the speakers out from the back wall, and sides they will need space to breathe. |
Pass is certainly not known to make cold sounding amps unless he's changed direction. Smooth and beautiful tone come to mind, and not the last word in bass control, usually associated with full class A bias.
Note that this is only based on having a pair of Alephs at home a few years ago. There have been a few new products from him since.
Worth a try anyway, don't dismiss them. |
I doubt the Lamm M2.2 would have enough power with only 220 watts. My room is too large. Pass Labs is on my list to hear. I had a friend tell me they were cold sounding so I dont know. I think the Savoys only dip to 6 ohms so I am really looking at the 8 ohm power rating.
I will be experimenting over the next few months with cables. I will try some of the ones you guys are using and recommended. |
Hey Rtn1,
WHAT?!!!
You disapprove of the Nordost Valhallas?!
Infidel!
(And, I take it quite personally that you don't approve of MY choice of speaker cables! Pistols at dawn, I say!)
;-)
I can understand somebody not liking the Valhallas. They can be a touch bright, and they are very detailed, to the point that if you already have a system that is detailed oriented, (i.e. perhaps using something like Wilson speakers), that they might seem a bit much. (Although my friend with the Rockport Antares is using them, and he used them when he was running the Avalon Eidolons too. Although, now that you brought it up, he did replace the Valhallas he used to use, as a preamp to amp interconnect, with the Jena Labs Pathfinders, which helped put some of the musicality back into his system.)
However, my Lamm M2.1 amplifiers, (unlike the aforementioned M2.2s), are just a bit rolled off on top, and going with the Valhallas improved the treble response, immensely, and really let the Andra II's Isotar tweeter do its thing!
My audio philosophy is: System synergy is everything! |
FWIW, the Savoy is going to require some real power. Think Pass X600.5. I think this will have 900 watts into 4 ohms.
As a contrasting opinion to Kurt, (whose opinion I think is typically very helpful), getting rid of the Nordost Valhallas was one of my best system upgrades.
I do think Lamm makes a good amp, and I even considered it. However, my speakers probably require a minimum of 300 watts into 4 ohms to properly control them with the music I like. I think yours would require even more. |
Coxhaus,
Based upon the discussions above, I wonder if my Lamm M2.1s, or their successors, the 220 wpc Lamm M2.2s would work with the Savoys? (They work very well indeed with my friend's Rockport Antares, and with another friend's Revel Salon 2's, both of which are also somewhat difficult to drive. And the Lamms get pretty warm too, (not hot, but warm enough to raise the room temperature a few degrees). If you get a chance to borrow a pair of M2.2s to audition, I recommend that you give them a try, as they are the best amplifiers I have ever heard. (Tied with the VAC Phi 300.1 tube amps, which would not have enough power for your speakers unfortunately.)
Also, I see you have discovered that Nordost cables and Eggleston speakers go together like eggs and bacon!
(Imagine Homer Simpson - Mmmmmm Bacon!)
;-)
I use Bi-wired Nordost Valhalla speaker cables myself, (along with balanced Nordost Quattro Fil interconnects from my preamp to amps), and I really like the sound. While I liked, (loved?), the mid-range that the Jena Labs Pathfinder speaker cables gave to the sound, they just seemed to roll off the treble just a bit too much for my tastes. |
I am experiencing the same problem as you are with amps. The Sonic Frontiers Power 3s sound the best. The problem is my room is so large it can suck the watts out of the amps. The Power 3s just run out of steam and start to harden off unless I play at low volumes. The Classe CAM 350 monos are very fast warm sounding amps and seem to get very close to tube sound using the very short SPM speaker cables I use. The Classe 350 monos are rated by Stereophile at 450 watts in 8 ohms. They just seem to really open up the Savoys to allow the music through in a way I cant do with the Power 3s. I am sure if I had 2 sets of Power 3 monos and bi-amped it would be the best. The heat in Texas in July and August would just be too great. If I lived north I would probably try it.
The Sonic Frontiers Power 3s are fabulous amps and Chris wants to modify them. He said they would be better over all and a lot better bass. He modified my Sonic Frontiers Line 3 and could not believe the difference. The Line 3 is what I am still using. |
My only gripe with my Andra IIs is it requires a high current amp to make it sing so playing with low power amps is not an option. I came to the same conclusion as Ontjesr after auditioning several more expensive and efficient speakers.
Coxhaus, I find my Sonic Frontier Power 3SE+ works well with the Andra IIs. After the mod using Reissued GL KT88 and NOS Philip Holland e88cc SQ, it produces 268 watts and able to drive the Andra to satisfying levels.
Bass and dynamics were better with my Krell FPB600 but inferior in all other areas. I sold the Krell ahortly after the SE+ mod.
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I have a couple of amps left over from prior speakers. I have a pair of Sonic Frontiers Power 3 monos with KT88 installed. I really like these amps. They make about 240 watts. They are just not big enough for the Savoys. The Savoys like power. I also have a pair of Classe CAM 350 monos. These are my main amps right now with the Savoys. I think I may go bigger in the future, not sure what I would upgrade to. The Classe 350 amps are connected to my speakers with 2 pairs of very short Nordost SPM Speaker cables. The speaker cables are only 2 feet for each pair. This amp combo creates a very fast presentation allowing the amps to build a complete image at least in my mind.
If you are thinking of upgrading to the Savoys make sure you have the space. My room is over 5000 cubic feet. Just about perfect.
I have to agree with you about Eggleston, they seem to have a knack for making musical speakers. It just doesnt matter what type of music I play they just disappear and let the music come forth. |
Not to worry, as you have stated, you made the right decision IMO. Congrats & enjoy. I love my Andra II's and had thought of moving up to other manufactuers in the price range +$5-$10K -- but have always come to the conclusion it would be a sideways move and not upward as initially led to believe.
If you keep the upgrade bug at bay, you'll keep these for some time.
Bob |
Rats!!!!!
Glad to hear that you are enjoying them so much.
(I too have been enjoying the Andra II speakers, since I bought them a couple of years ago. Eggleston seems to have a knack for making speakers that can just plain get the heck out of the way when making music! These speakers seem to disappear like only the very best speakers I have ever had can do.)
Question:
What amplier(s) are you driving the Savoys with, by the way?
(Just curious. In case you are wondering, I am using the hybrid (200 wpc) Lamm M2.1 monoblocks. Great amps, with great speakers. Good combo, IMHO!!)
Congrats on making a fine choice, btw!!!
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This is the first day for me to use the new Savoys. I worried the night before they were installed but I have gotten over it and have moved on. I think I have figured out why the Savoys are extremely revealing and still great speakers. The Savoys present such a large picture of sound that if the details were not there then the picture would be lacking. A lot of speakers present a compressed picture to fit in smaller rooms without overload. The volume from the Savoys speakers is large. You would not own these in a small room. But the plus side is you can hear all nuances and details you crave without being to analytical. I guess if there is a down side to the speakers they do not play at low volumes and create a small picture. I dont care as I bought large speakers to play large in a big room. The Savoys breathe large pictures of sound so easily compared to the B&W 801s. The 801 will go there but they are straining and not revealing. It is easy to tell. |
My Savoys are 11 months old bought off Audiogon. Wow is all I can say about the Savoys. I started playing delta blues Slim Harpo disc 2 The Excello Collection and the drive and harmonica from the speakers is the best I have heard. I then played Joe Henderson Lush Life. My wife plays saxophone and she could hear all the keys being played on the saxophone incredible. These speakers are revealing but in a very musical way. I moved on the classical Scheherazade. The speakers took on a different personally playing classical. They were very dynamic and detailed with the top piccolos ever so sweet. These speakers are so much more than my B&W 801s. The 801s are like tiny speakers without meat compared to the Savoys. I cant get enough of my new speakers. One of these days I will have stop music and start looking at equipment again but not now. Ah
its good to be retired. I know what I am doing today and tomorrow.
PS.
I don't think I will trade.
lee |
Coxhaus,
Well, I am afraid that French_fries is correct. The Andra II is the speaker you truly need for your room, especially if you want truly musical speakers.
However, with that being said, I am prepared to "make your day"! I have a lovely set of Andra II speakers, that I will trade you for the brand new Savoys. Assuming this is acceptable to you, (and why would it not be?), then merely have the speakers delivered directly to me, and I will ship, (at my expense no less!), my Andra II speakers to you.
(Yes, I know, I am truly a magnanimous guy. What can I say, but "You're Welcome!")
;-) |
on the one hand they are the epitome of a full range loudspeaker, no question.
on the other... the point man at egglestonworks once told me the ORIGINAL savoys are extremely revealing and are "more like studio monitors".
i would imagine that means that bad recordings might suffer a bit (or perhaps alot). this person told me the andra sounds more musical, especially in the home environment. BUT that comment was made several years ago, so things are always changing for the better. needless to say the ANDRA'S (version one and two) are imho one of the most incredible all-round speakers you can own, with bass that goes down to 18Hz, and one of the best tweeters ever made. |
