Thank you for your thorough explanation. While this is sorta new to me, I am trying to do as much research as possible.
You are correct about the Basis pods. When I push the plinth down, I hear metal on metal contact inside the pods. It must be the springs I’m feeling.
Your advice is solid. So, if I go beyond the OL Conqueror and Herron VTPH2A, considering I want/need to upgrade anyhow, which t.t.’s jive best with those 2. Or, which ones would be a good choice?
If you believe that arms should be made by tonearm companies and t.t.’s by t.t. companies and considering how you feel about all in ones, taking into account that Touraj of Vertere started out making t.t.’s with the Roksan and should know analog pretty well, where does your thoughts fall on Vertere? That the turntable is good? But the tonearm maybe not as good?
If I need to stay below a certain budget, the $1000 Vertere phono-1 may be good enough a phono drive..
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Thanks cardani. I wasn’t sure about Vertere’s suspension. I was told by someone who does own the Vertere that the standard Red Line wiring and cables were very,very,very good. So, I’ll take your advice on that.
I honestly haven’t researched and don’t know a lot about these things like the uni pivot or gimbal tonearm etc. I’ve only known the Rega RB900. I ’ve read about the Vector 4 and have heard about the Origin Conqueror. The thing with my Basis plinth is only a Basis Vector can drop into the pre cut hole. Otherwise I have to send it back to Basis for a new hole cut or new acrylic plinth...Another reason to move on and up from the 2001
millercarbon- Nice turntable! Interestingly, I recently pulled out my Radio Shack Bulk demagnetizer after reading about demagnetizing LP’s.I bought my Basis 2001 in 2000. Haven’t played LP’s in 8 years. Yeah. I know. But when i tap on the plinth, the table shimmy’s like it always has. So, maybe I’m lucky and the fluid is still there.
The Herron VTPH2A is now on my phono drive list. It must best Vertere’s PHONO-1 considerably as it costs more than 2x the phono-1. I think I paid $1600 for my McCormack Micro Phono Drive in 2000.....
I know there is no one right way to do this but I’d like to be in the neighborhood of doing it right. I just want to do this once. The simple thing about the Vertere MG-1/SG-1 is the factory will mount the tonearm properly. But is the SG-1 carbon fiber tonearm majorly outclassed by the Vector 4 or Origin Conqueror? At $2350, the price difference suggests it does but I don’t know. I suppose I could always just buy the MG-1 and put on another tonearm.
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Thanks for your thoughts.
One option is to get the Vertere MG-1 table and buy a separate arm...I currently have a Rega RB900 arm on my Basis but want to upgrade.
I am curious about the Audio Note TT3 in that it has a suspended table but more for the 3 motors(they make their own arms too) ...So does having 3 motors make a big enough difference to the Vertere? The MG-1's motor is free to slightly pivot which helps greatly with speed control and accuracy.
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@millercabon You thought that the RB300 was a workhorse.
This might be a dopey question but do you feel the same about the RB900? That's what I have now with my Basis 2001 sans liquid suspension.
I've been wondering if I am underselling the 2001/RB900/Benz Wood M2 a little. Not that I won't upgrade but I have no other reference to compare. Thanks.
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Thanks @cardani. I’ve looked at the Xerxes20 plus before. It’s a nice t.t.. Decoupling everywhere....
You’d think that Touraj would have taken all the good design in it and put it into the MG-1... I’ve had my Basis 2001 for 20 years so I’m learning on the fly. Looking at pictures of the MG-1, it appears that the Vertere MG-1 has the tonearm decoupled from the plinth but coupled to the spindle. I think.
The MG-1 is a very attractive t.t.. It seems that the MG-1/SG-1/PHONO-1 might give the biggest bang for the buck without sacrificing on the sonics.
Another attractive t.t. but more costly is the Oracle Audio Delphi MK VI Classic T.T.. Man, that is one beautiful turntable. Might be the only T.T. I’d even consider blowing my budget on. But, how much is too much when it comes to spending $ on a T.T....Somebody posted that in their opinion, sound is influenced 70% by the cartridge; 20% by the phono stage and 10% by the tonearm and table. Don’t know if that is correct though...
Not that there isn’t better gear at the price but all the reviews I’ve read about the Vertere trio have been very complimentary about and the sound. But I’m still considering options....
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Yeah. It sounded off to me as well.
Just read up on the Audio Note TT3. Suspended turntable with 3 motors.
I've never seen a T.T. with 2 motors let alone 3. Looks impressive.
While I still haven't made up my mind, I think things are becoming clearer.
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@mijostyn Thanks for the great information.
Interesting that Vertere does not want a record clamp or vacuum but a free floating LP. It goes against nearly every other company.Vertere states that their tonearm is not a unipivot. As does Basis with the Vector 4.
I thought about putting a great tonearm on my Basis 2001..Basis advised buying the Calibrator Base with a tonearm upgrade. Perhaps that is a suspension tune?
But the liquid suspension in my suspension pods has evaporated. The springs still work but is it worse off now?
A Basis dealer who was also a Vertere dealer told me that in order to even approach the musical performance of the Vertere MG-1/SG-1 package with my Basis 2001, I'd need a Calibrator Base and a Rega 2000 tonearm. But really with a Vector 4 tonearm. Those 2 upgrades(Calibrator+Vector 4) would cost almost $10,000.
Someone I greatly respect, a total vinyl audiophile, sold his SME 30 and SME V Tonearm for the Vertere set up and he said the Vertere ran rings around it for 1/4 of the price. That got my attention.....He is crazy about the sound. And runs it through the Vertere phono-1. I've questioned different Vertere gear designs and his answer is always about THE SOUND. It sounds great...
That is why i'm chasing my tail with this. Very confusing. I've read so much good things about the SOTA Cosmos Eclipse, but, it's kinda boring looking..I know. Shouldn't judge. (Unless I went all the way with the Millenia Eclipse/OL Enterprise/2nd Mortgage).
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Thanks @jperry. As much as I want an upgraded new toy, I feel like I haven’t really tested the Basis yet.
The Basis rep wrote to me: "The Rega was one of the few stop gap products for Basis, so more customers could experience a Basis turntable, and it was designed so the Vector tonearm can be installed without any re-machining or adapter necessary to replace the Rega. Due to the 2001’s lower price and weight in the Basis lineup, many people do not realize that the 2001 and Vector are a worthy pair. The tonearm is really more important than the turntable if the turntable is of sufficient quality, which the 2001 is. The 2001 has incredible speed stability due to the well designed and carefully executed drive system (quality motor, precision ground belt, tight bearing and platter tolerances). The 2001 also has effective vibration isolation with the fluid damped suspension. And the Vector is amazing, eliminating mistracking, and achieving AJ’s goal of effortlessness in playback, so the music just flows. Unfortunately, too many tonearms are resonant and hard to listen to. A more forward, bright, peaky sound can be confused for detail, but it is not true detail. Basis products are aiming for the naturalness, ease, and low distortion of real music."
Question- Do you think it’s worth the $3,000 for the Calibrator Base($2700) and Cable Isolation System($300) with a Vector 4?..Would it make as much of a difference as I've been told? Or, put all that $ into the Vector 4 tonearm. Maybe saving up for the Superarm 9.........The Absolute Sound wrote this:" If you own a Basis turntable with a Vector ’arm, I can’t imagine a greater sonic upgrade than switching to the Superarm. If you are thinking about buying a Basis and a Vector ’arm, you should seriously consider stepping down a level in the Basis’ turntable line so that your budget can accommodate the Superarm."
Are you getting less out of a Vector 4 or Super Arm without the Calibrator Base? Lot’s to think about!
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Thanks @jperry That is high praise indeed for the Vector tonearm. "Massive" improvement is great!
How much more of an improvement is your Garrard 301 from the Basis 2001?
I currently have a Benz Micro Wood M2 w/ Boron Cantilever($1600 new I believe) that was recently serviced at VAS. It had around 50 hours of play on it and the stylus was slightly polished back to new.... The M2 was the previous model of the current ML wood models.
I'll have to inquire about the Calibrator Base and see what kind of improvement it makes. 20% I wouldn't care. But 50% or more? I'll consider it. I'll write Basis again about it. And ask if they have any used Vector 4's that were traded for the Super Arm...But if they do recommend a $2700 Calibrator base which is just a machined acrylic plate for the pods to be stabilized in, I may be better off selling my 2001 and upgrading the table.
Your system looks great. I love the look of tube amps. I have Jeff Rowland Model 12 monoblocks for each of my JM Lab Mezzo Utopia speakers. The Ikeda tonearm looks to be slightly more $ than the Vector 4 so hopefully if I do go with the Vector, I'm happy for a long while..The Ikeda 9GSS must be amazing..And the Garrard 301. Wow. Nice.....If you are a member of Steve Hoffman's Forum, you can look up my profile information to see my whole system...
As good as it is, it may be time to replace my McCormack Micro Phono Drive if I upgrade to the Vector 4. Oh, the analog rabbit hole.... |
Thank you for your offer Jim. I would LOVE to hear that analog rig. Wowser.
My feeling now is, at 60, I don’t want to go in stages. I’ve been spending months researching and educating myself. That is the biggest thing. But, I want to make the right purchase and then never even feel the need to consider another upgrade. And that includes the phono stage...All of my power, speaker and interconnect cables are very good. But when it’s time to re-tip the Benz Wood M2, maybe a new cartridge. But I need to give that Benz a good ride.
I have read nothing except admiration and adulation about the Garard’s.
I think if I was really going to go for it, I might consider the Oracle Delphi VI Classic. But at $10K+, I am wondering if there is a table close to that in characteristics and esthetics for 30% less. Once I sell my Basis 2001(and Reflex clamp?)/RB 900/McCormack Phono Drive after my upgrade, that will be a nice little refund I could retroactively apply to an upgrade......
I wrote to Basis to learn about the value of the Calibrating Base. But, I think you hit the nail on the head. I do not want to spend $9K on upgrading a 2001. And a Basis 2800 Signature Model is over $12K.
Once I get the soldering iron I ordered from Amazon and finish my soldering work of replacing a burned out tweeter diaphragm voice coil on one of my Mezzo’s, I’ll give my analog gear a good listen and evaluation.
In the meantime, I’ll keep researching. I don’t need the best. I just want a rig that is very accurate and neutral and sounds fantastic. Not as easy as it sounds.
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Oh man @mijostyn AJ rolling in his grave about the Calibrator? That is hysterical..Ok, no Calibrator Base.
Great suspension etc. but the Cosmos is one of the most unassuming, unimpressive t.t.’s I’ve seen. And I hate paying a premium for wood finishes. I’d rather put that money towards a tonearm. Despite my objections, it is a great t.t. and I like the dustcover option.
My Sound Anchors rack weighs 300 pounds. You could drill for oil next to it and it wouldn’t move a fraction of a millimeter. Does that allow me some wiggle room to buy a cooler looking t.t. who’s suspension might not be as great as the SOTA’s?
The Schroeder tonearm looks very well made. Very promising...The CB-1 is about $5,0000. As far as your comment about SOTA tonearms(and the Schroeder), aren’t you better off with a 9" than a 12" due to stiffness etc.? Or with carbon fiber and wood it is not as much a concern?...I’ve never seen a wood tonearm before. I think either Touraj from Vertere stole the DG tonearm shape from the Schroeder BA or Schroeder stole the shape of his BA from the DG. Or I could be wrong.
The Vertere SG-1 tonearm is also carbon fiber and looks like the Schroeder’s but it’s $2350. I bet that email acquaintance really has the Vertere Reference tonearm....
I’ve been told by Basis dealers and others that with a great tonearm, you can downgrade a bit on the turntable.
In all cases, I need to upgrade my phono drive. The Manley Chinook for $2700? I have solid state pre amp and amps.... I’m not sure a Herron VPTH2A tube phono stage would jive.
I hope to have my Basis 2001/RB900/Benz Wood M2 up and running in a week to get a baseline. Do I need to buy an LP of RHCP’s BSSM :)? I’ve got the CD but.......
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@mdbrown
When I was corresponding with Alex about my refilling my empty Basis 2001 pods, it was suggested that if I did not want to send the pods back to have them recalibrated, to buy 1 of the Basis 4oz bottles of silicone for $160 and add 1oz to each pod well.
"We have a set up here to get the optimum amount of damping fluid in each pod. The idea is to have the spring which is in damping fluid be the only connection between the turntable and the environment for the best vibration isolation. Too little fluid and the damping is less effective, too much fluid is worse because then the turntable spring foot is sitting in the fluid and you lose the isolation. The amount of fluid is slightly different in each corner due to the weight distribution. That said you could measure out 1 oz of silicone fluid for each pod if you want to add the fluid."
I was going to use a Monoject syringe with a metal tip to inject exactly 1oz. each. But, as Alex said, the differing weight distribution to each pod could translate to slightly different amounts of silicone for each pod.
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