Network Switches

@rilbr 

"Here we go again. I just saw 50 to 60 posts from people who have not tried one of the switches in question.
This just confuses people who come here to find out results."

Seems to me this thread has stayed pretty much on task as it is about Network Switches.  Three were suggested by the OP and he asked us to

" Feel free to add others."

Which of the three have you tried and how did it (they) work out for you?

I would like to know why I would need a switch as discussed here, where I would use it, and what it would do for me.  My knowledge of switches is basically non-existent, hence the dumb question.  If this is not the thread for this then just say so.

Currently, my system is played through a digital-only source using either streamed Tidal or my ripped library, both played through a Roon interface.  My system now sounds better than through any of the high end CD players I have owned so I don't really have a problem but I am curious whether I am missing out somehow by not having certain peripherals. 

The source set-up includes running Ethernet cable from my Orbi router (high speed Comcast) directly to an Antipodes DX Gen3 server, then Ethernet cable again from the DX to a Metrum Ambre (Roon endpoint), then I2S from the Ambre into a Metrum Adagio DAC. 

I would like to know what I am missing, or how my sound could be improved by having a switch somewhere in that chain?  I simply do not understand the purpose of the switch.  Thanks for any helpful information.

One off-topic thing I find interesting here is the possibility of optical cabling as an interface.  The Ambre (Roon endpoint) will accept an optical input and connects to my DAC using I2S so I am curious if inserting an optical interface would offer any improvements.

Thanks Al!

Thanks guys. 
There are indeed other devices connected to my router by Ethernet cables, such as a smart TV and an Apple TV box so what I believe you are implying is that a separate switch will perform the switching duties better than my Orbi router.
To make sure I am clear, should I run a single short Ethernet cable from my router to the switch and then connect the various TV devices, plus my Antipodes DX server, to the switch....is it that simple?
If I have it correct, then I will give it a try and report back.
Assuming it sounds better, am I to understand the next step that would further the sonic improvement would be to purchase an "audiophile" switch - isn't that the topic of this thread?

Thanks again guys.
Regarding power supplies, I have an HD Plex just sitting around that I can hook up to my router this weekend.  The HD Plex I have is totally configurable for different voltages with multiple fixed and variable outputs.  I can also verify the output using my volt-ohm meter.  I may eventually be able to use it to run both the router and a switch when I get one.

Things that may or may not make a difference in what I will hear is that with my Roon endpoint, the Metrum Ambre;

"The board is completely and optically decoupled from the rest of the Ambre."

This is apparently done using;

"ultra-fast industrial optical decoupling"

and

"The network connection is also galvanically isolated."

My understanding is the main Pi board and the outputs board are optically decoupled.
They also apparently use two femto precision clocks by Tentlabs.

@david_ten 

Did the posts / responses answer your questions?

Yes, I believe so for now. Thanks again to all for the help. 

Based on the responses here and my sleuthing around on the internet, it seems a good start would be to purchase a switch and try it in different positions either near my router or near my Antipodes DX server.  I also plan to power my router, and possibly the switch too (if it needs power), using my HD Plex linear power supply that is currently not being used. 

As far as which switch, it seems a  Cisco WS-C2960G-8TC-L Catalyst 2960 8-Port 10/100/1000 Ethernet Switch is pretty well-regarded and would be a good start.  It can be purchased for less than $100 used or less than $200 "refurbished."  Should I assume I need 10/100/1000 ports?  The port configuration (speed?) seems to make a difference in the price, and they are not all the same.

Another "audiophile" switch I came across in my searching that is not mentioned in the OP is the Silent Angel Bonn N8 Switch for about $400 new, from Crux.

I just purchased the  TCXO Audiophile Ethernet Network Switch - "Silent Angel" Bonn N8.
I haven't seen any others here using it but there are several good international reviews and the price was right compared to other audio playback specific switches I looked at.  I will try in the configurations suggested earlier in this thread by @almarg and let you all know what I think. It should be here before Christmas. 

I suspect (like many things audio) the relative benefit of things like switches may be dependent on the downstream connections and processing.  

I received the  "Silent Angel" Bonn N8  Ethernet Network Switch yesterday and plan to hook it up today.
My question is whether to connect it close to my router or close to my server?  The router and server are connected by a 35-foot Ethernet cable.
If close to the router I can use my HD Plex LPS that is powering my router to also power the switch, but if close to the server then I would have a very short cable from the switch to the server and would probably use the Bonn N8 PS to power the switch.  If close to the server, I can plug the Bonn's PS into my Isoclean 60A3 II power filter.  Otherwise, if the switch is close to the server, I can use the router's own power supply to power the router, and move the Plex LPS close to my server, plug it into the Isoclean 60A3 II, and use it to power the switch.  Any clear direction or do I need to do some trial and error?  Which option do you guys presume would be best? Thanks

@david_ten 
Thanks for the help. I will try the switch close to the server.  To be clear on the PS issue, the HD Plex LPS was a spare I had around so I connected it to power my router rather than the wall wort that came with the router.
My server has a great internal PS so the choice is whether to use the Plex on the router (as it is now) or on the switch instead of the PS that comes with the N8.  However, if I were to put the switch close to the router, instead of close to the server, then I could use the HD Plex LPS to power both the router and the switch.  I will first try the switch close to the server using the PS that comes with the switch but plugged into my IsoClean 60A filter.  Maybe later I will try moving the LPS from the router to the switch.
Thanks again for the help.

Ok, so I optimized the Bonn N8 switch by positioning it very close to my Antipodes DX3 server, using the short Ethernet cable that came with the N8 to connect with the server, using my HD Plex LPS to power the N8, and plugging the LPS into my IsoClean A60 power filter.  Since I moved the LPS to power the N8 switch, I am back to using the stock PS to power the Orbi router.
There seems to be a sonic improvement but certainly not night and day.  I would say smoother and maybe a bit more tonal depth.

So, in the spirit of trying new things, in a couple of days I will have the same optical isolation set-up that Michael Lavorgna discussed in his article titled, "Electrically Isolate Your Networked Audio"
A little more expensive than at the time of the article but still relatively cheap in the audio world.
Have any of you tried this......
https://www.audiostream.com/content/electrically-isolate-your-networked-audio

Ok, I gave this stuff a try so here is my digital set-up running Tidal and stored files (I plan to give Qobuz a try in January after I receive my new amps).  Adding the switch and the optical 
isolation seems to have resulted in a slightly smoother, quieter presentation - a bit more pleasant to listen to over longer periods of time. 

Current digital set-up;
Orbi router  
>Cat 6 Ethernet cable (35 feet) 
>TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converter
>Tripp Lite Duplex Multimode 62.5/125 Fiber Patch Cable (SC/SC), 1M
>TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converter
>Cat 6 Ethernet cable (3 feet)  
>Silent Angel - Bonn N8 Audio Grade Network Switch
>Cat 6 Ethernet cable (3 feet)
>Antipodes DX3 Server
>Cat 6 Ethernet cable (3 feet)
>Metrum Ambre Roon endpoint
>I2S cable
>Metrum Adagio DAC

Thanks for the advice but looking at the Ethernet cable offerings reminds me of the early days of USB cables.  Some reviewers report "significant improvements" while others say the differences are small.  HiFi Wigwam states that simply switching to generic CAT 8 cables would be an audible improvement.  Then, as with all things audio, there seems to be a progression of sorts where certain cables start out as a great "bang for the buck" but are soon eclipsed by newer offerings, such as the $50 Supra CAT 8 cable that Audio Bacon liked early on but later replaced with the latest cable du jour, the $500 SOtM dCBL-CAT7 Audiophile Ethernet Cable, which apparently can be bettered by JCAT’s $1,100 Ethernet Cable.  The Supra is priced right but from what I could find while it apparently sounds "nice," improves on off-the-shelf cables (OTSC), and has good tonal qualities, in comparison to others it may be a bit soft and less focused.

I am considering moving the two TP-LINK MC200CM Gigabit Media Converters and Fiber Patch Cable to the server side of (i.e., after) the Bonn switch to hopefully reduce any noise coming from the switch.  Michael Lavorgna at AudioStream didn't set his up that way because he needed to run multiple cables from his switch.  If I move the fiber set-up, then I would only have one Ethernet cable between the second TP-LINK converter and my server, although I would have another between the server and my Roon endpoint (...ugh, where does it stop?).  If I were inclined to spend $500 on an Ethernet cable, I would probably put it last in the chain, either from the second TP-LINK to my DX server or between the server and Roon endpoint, but I am certainly not going to purchase 3 or 4, $500 Ethernet cables!

I found this (linked below) review interesting in that they compared several Ethernet cables (but not the SOtM) in a blind testing and came away with this; 

At the end we settled on a random A-B-X blind test methodology and submit all the cables that we had to extensive comparison.

Not knowing which cable we were auditioning (the test pattern looked like A-B-A-A-A-B, for example), step by step some nuances in how the cables performed started to appear. When I say nuances I mean perhaps 1%, perhaps 5% of difference between the Ethernet cables that we used. Nothing to really write home about. Most cables performed about the same, there were only two that stood out. The Supra was audibly softer and more muffled than others, keeping similar signature that was heard in the HS-Link application. The OTSC became the winner of the test – it was the preferred cable even in the direct shootout with the AudioQuest, no matter how technically inferior it may be.

Conclusion

Although it may not be exactly what you want to hear, for the router/streamer connection please feel free to use any RJ-45 cable that is on hand. If you want to feel unique then invest a bit more into a product like Viablue, or dress a standard patch cable in a colourful jacket or shrinkwrap of your choice. What is puzzling is that in theory there should be zero difference between the cables and still there was some.

http://www.audiodrom.net/en/special-edition-reviews/104-ethernet-rj-45-cables-shootout

Looks like everyone involved with streaming trying to come up with their own version of ‘audiophile’ switches. 

Is this akin to when cable manufacturers coined the phrase a "loom" of cables, with the idea that all cables in a system should be from the same manufacturer? 

I have had an Orbi mesh system for a couple of years now.
Although I run fiber from my main router to my main system and that works great, I operate my garage/outdoor system through one of the mesh satellites as described by @david_ten below with a 0.5M CAT8 cable from the Orbi satellite to a Metrum Baby Ambre then Jade DAC and it too sounds great with no issues (drop outs, etc.) whatsoever.  I use the stock power supply on the satellite with no perceptible detriment to SQ but I do use LPSs on both fiber converters associated with my main system.

@bulkdevicesuk 
Hello, I see you are new here so - welcome!
I don’t have a good answer to your question, but for best results I recommend starting your own new thread with the title, "server hard drive needed" or similar. Post it under digital. There are also other sites with computer/digital audio specific discussions you might try such as Audiophile Style (under Music Servers) or Audio Asylum (under Digital or PC Audio). Good luck.

 thanks David, I missed that

@glory 

I hope that is a typo since the K50 retails for $15K.

I assume you like it.  

QSA Modified Gold Version Audiophile Network Switch - $5,400

"QSA has performed another sonic miracle with their Gold 2.5 G network switch. If you've experienced The QSA Fuses, or AC adapters, The sonic effect of the switch is similar to the Silver and Gold level QSA products in terms of performance.

The Gold version has been treated with their proprietary processes, and materials. It appears to have more crystals used in treatment. The QSA Gold Switch adds one more process QSA calls DSRT (Digital Sound Removal Technology). The claim is removal of the unnatural sound that digital audio can so often impose on music when compared to analog sources."

Can't help being skeptical - it looks like any other switch, except it has glass beads glued to it and costs over half what I paid for my dac - just sayin'

Oh, and the marketing verbiage says exactly nothing - "sonic miracle" indeed!