Hi SoMusic,
I have spoken to a number of people about this one in my own search. i have not heard it. FWIW, you may wish to check out audioexotics.hk, a Hong Kong based site where the guys do tend to gravitate towards the same taste/equipment...so there is something there for you to consider...but in any event, they have a long series of threads about digital and some dedicated to the Neodio.
In sum, they all feel it is a very good player that is up there with the SOTA.
OTOH, i have also spoken with 2 very respected members of WBForum and neither was particularly impressed with it.
Finally, i have spoken with 2 people from Audioexotics off the record who did say it is excellent...but one is selling having found better, and the other encouraged me to look at another unit (which concidentally was the same one as the seller of the neodio actually bought).
i believe it was stahl-tek opus.
wish i could be more helpful, but i have not found a place to hear it for myself which in the end is what really matters. this is just the research i was able to gather on my own and just sharing it. good luck and pls post if you audition it.
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Lloyd, many thanks. After a long search for digital I could live with long term, in 2007 I settled on the EMM Labs CDSA SE, with German transport and X-upgrade since, and I couldn't be happier.
As with all things audio, always looking for something as an interesting alternative.
Your feedback most welcome. |
SoMusic if you like the sound of the EMM which I think you do, I don't think you will like the Neodio. They are opposite in sound. The Neodio is warm and very organic sounding. The EMM is very open and detailed and to my ears thin in the midrange. In my opinion there is no way you are going to like the French player. The best Jeff |
Jeff, your response is a little ambiguous. I've just updated my analogue front end to a tt/arm combo that combines the best of analogue ie warm and organic, with the best of digital ie open and detailed. I would hate to be without either in my sound presentation.
I actually find the EMM on audition 5 years ago was the clear winner over competing brands like Marantz, AMR, Naim, Meridian, Wadia etc.
I felt it was as detailed as any with a real tonal density and transparency I couldn't find in any other player (at the time).
So, in your opinion are you saying you prefer the Neodio to the EMM? |
I like the Neodio better, but I don't think you will. |
Jeff, what I've learnt in this game is not to expect the expected. Many people told me the AMR 777 would blow the EMM CDSA out of the water. I felt rather the reverse was the case, feeling the AMR hopelessly outclassed when it came esp. to tonal solidity and overall transparency.
Both were better than my prev. Marantz SA-1 which was poss. one of my less intelligent purchases.
Please fill me in with as much detail as poss. your impressions of the Neodio, and how it compares with other top end players you've heard.
Many thanks in advance. |
Spiritofmusic,
I had the opposite experience. I used to have the EMM CDSA SE. I now have the AMR DP-777 and PS Audio PerfectWave transport. In my system the AMR wiped the EMM off the map in all respects -- right out of the box with no break-in. I had no hesitation whatsoever in selling off the EMM. (The DP-777 is supposed to be very close to the CD-77 according to the reports I have read.) |
Sabai, obv. system synergy is everything! Happy with EMM, but always on the lookout for more natural, analogue sounding digital. Ironically I've invested in a tt/arm which actually brings a lot of what is good about digital to analogue replay which I'm v. happy about, and there is some consistency of sound between it and the EMM.
But the few really positive comments I've heard re the Neodio and Eera Tentation has whetted my appetite to hear these poss. v. interesting takes on digital replay.
Still interested in listeners' impressions. |
SOMusic, have you checked out audioexotics.hk? they have a full thread dedicated to Neodio. Let me know what you think if you get a chance to read. |
Lloyd, yes I have followed the Audio Exotics thread. My inference is that many, if not all there, seem to favour it, some like it even more than the Stahl Tek. This is interesting because re UK pricing the latter is 4x more expensive (and let us not even consider the Opus version, 8x more costly!).
It does seem a few still give the Stahl Tek the edge, but there appears to be not much in it.
I particularly like the sound of the engineering behind the Neodio, utilising an analogue clock to counter the microphony sensitivity of quartz crystal, and it's fastidious attitude to damping/vibration control.
I'm also v. intersted to hear the Eera Tentation, which again uses over engineering solutions to enhance the sound of digital - both at a real world price (unlike the Stahl Tek). However the Eera has no UK dealership.
What is noteworthy about both units is that they are championed by renowned engineers both heavily pro analogue (Neodio by designer of DaVinci uber tts, and Eera by designer of Von Schwiekert spkrs). Both have dispensed with uber expensive cd players to settle on these, praising their warm, transparent analogue sound presentation.
Lloyd, can you be more specific as to the negative as well as positive comments you've heard re the NR22? And do you have any thoughts on the Eera Tentation? |
2 people who heard it knew the system in which it was playing and felt it sounded flat/dull. These are people who love analog. i was extremely surprised to hear this, and these are people whose ears i think i know based on their numerous comments about other systems.
it was a slight shock to me to hear two such negative comments (off-line) about something so praised. Given how difficult it is to hear one, that made me less enthusiastic about trying to find some way to hear it. i woudl still like to and will let you know if i do.
i have heard the original Stahl-Tek and have spoken with Mike Stahl who is extremely helpful. It is excellent with detail and decay to match the DCS SCarlatti...but with a tonality/engaging quality that i much preferred. Still not enough to tempt me...but i have yet to hear 2 subsequent generations of Stahl-Tek. |
Well there is a possibility of hearing the one box player, and transp/dac in the UK. What's interesting for me is that players which were touted as analogue like, ie the Marantz SA-1 and AMR CD-777, I didn't at all get on with, but the EMM CDSA SE esp. with German transport upgrade and X upgrade, which is not necc. the choice of analogue afficionados, really does float my boat, so much so that my prev. analog rig (Michell Orbe/SME V) began to take a back seat to the EMM. However I am aware of it's main shortcomings, common to all digital that I've heard, of sterile thinness thru the midrange, and a tendency not to represent the difference in tonality in different recordings. Reading between the lines, the Neodio seems to positively address these shortcomings.
In fact, satisfaction with EMM digital has directly led to my current choice of tt/arm which now give my record replay a much needed boost of digital like precision, and reopened the advantage of analogue over digital by quite some margin.
It is from this perspective that I'm curious if players like the Neodio or Eera can now give me something more back on the analogue presentation front.
So negative comments are definitely not the consensus when put along Audio Exotic HK forum board members, who unanimously praise it's transparency and tonality, associating it's sound with state of the art analogue (Da Vinci tt/arm).
The mystery deepens! |
I agree system synergy is everything. I own the NEODIO and with the correct mix of components it is very engaging. I also had a chance to compare the Stahl-Tek before the OPUS upgrade, and found it to have a greater bandwidth, dynamics, and more expansive soundstage. What are the rest of the components in your system?
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Just upgraded to Trans Fi Audio Salvation direct rim drive tt (I have a thread running on the Analog Forum) with Terminator T3Pro air bearing linear tracking tonearm. The banishing of belt drive time domain bass smear and neutral tracking of the arm is giving me all the benefits of analogue with the all the precision of digital. Interestingly, some of the tt's sound is in similar league with my Emm cd. Cart is Transfiguration Orpheus or Zu Denon 103 into a Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono, Hovland HP200 tube preamp/Radia ss pow amp, Zu Audio Definitions Mk4 xoverless FRD spkrs. I am also running the system thru a 4kV balanced power unit and have eliminated bass nodes with SpatialComputer Black Hole unit.
So my system is pretty well balanced, power uncorrupted, analogue as good as it gets imho, just curious if the Neodio really matches up to things mentioned in the HiFi Plus review esp. ability to really convey tonal differences between recordings - this is such a given on lp, but cd players even at the top end really do struggle not to homogeinise sound from one disc to the next. |
Himiguel,
I found the Stahl-Tek Vekian to have separation and soundstaging detail the equal of which i have not heard before. It was incredibly enjoyable to listen to different elements of an orchestral ensemble with such ease...and to be able to listen to each set of instruments playing a contrapuntal element in contrast with another element of the ensemble...and to be able to do it all so effortlessly. |
Gentleman, I can't stretch to the Stahl Tek, short of a lottery win. Having just made what I believe will be my last ever analogue upgrade, which is extremely neutral displaying the best of digital in it's presentation, I'm now on the search to find a cd player that will demonstrate the best analogue characteristics in it's presentation. Other than my EMM, only the Reimyo I heard previously gets close.
The review in HiFi Plus stating the Neodio being adept at changing tonality between discs suggests it has this analogue sensibility.
I gather the Eera Tentation is v. analogue like too esp. in terms of tonal density. |
does the neodio have a tube ??
it sounds like it is relatively uncolored.
i would say the original lector and the original zanden dac would be interesting competitors.
again, a digital component without a tube is ast a disadvantage, in terms of long term listenability. |
No tubes, just a well isolated analog clock, and OTT damping/vibration control.
The EERA TENTATION that I'm considering also has it's main claim to fame being serious vibration control thru internal damping and the over engineered Gyropint 2 transport upgrade mechanism.
It seems that if these two players (plus the Stahl Tek) are really close to the best of analogue compared to other players out there, it seems that engineering practices applied to tt's for many years are going to get the best out of digital.
Maybe the transport is a lot more vital, even than the DAC, then we've considered previously. |
SpiritoMusic...sounds like you've got great options...great options. I also will agree Transport is very important. I have auditioned transports a little bit, and the changes were dramatic. Another point for Neodio as they have both the 1-piece as well as the 2-piece. |
Well, I am investigating whether that elusive cd player is out there that can hold it's head up high with my new really sweet sounding analogue rig. I'm afraid the Stahl Tek is a LITTLE out of reach, but the Neodio may still do it for me. I'm a little out of the mainstream here, use of a server/downloads of no interest to me, I'm confident discs and standalone players will be here for some time yet (lp's are back in vogue, believe over the decade same will happen to digital). |
The best transport I ever heard was the Forsel with its air bearing cd drive unit. |
Can we please keep this thread on topic. Just curious to hear impressions of the Neodio and Eera; they're both "below the radar" but claim to get as close to analogue as any digital does.
Would like to gather impressions. |
The Neodio offers a transport/dac and a stand alone player, the Eera
Tentation as a player only.
My understanding is the separates from Neodio expand its parameters
even further.
Will these be available for audition in the US at some given point? |
SpiritofMusic,
You might also speak with Wilson or Lamm...both of whom have shown their products with Neodio at various shows. If you ask diplomatic questions...they often can provide off-the-record, diplomatic answers that help guide you. i have done this before and it has been quite elucidating.
BTW, i have always kept my eye on STahl-Tek and Zanden, but i have been encouraged to consider opening up a third lane in the race, for TAD D600. Superbly analogue, well engineering, SACD/CD and useable as DAC with digital inputs as well. half the cost of Stahl-Tek though still extraordinarily expensive. I am doing my homework as speaking with people now. though i would pass along and share that one...if you know anything about TAD D600, pls let me know. good luck! |
My experience with the Neodio NR DAC / macbook is that it is very much at home with my Allnic H3000V phono stage, yes its that good,Yes synergy is everything as i have found that using it with the hifi tuning supreme fuses simply closed in and coloured the sound , the blue furutech fuses are the ones to go for! also it had a similar effect when using Argento flow and flow master reference with the flow easily being the prefered choice. ( The Allnic kit is the complete opposite ) I can also confirm that its performance is further elevated from using a purepower regenerator.
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Good advice Lloyd. TAD a "tad" out of my price range (not an original pun, but what the heck!).
I'm certainly going to contact Wilson, Lamm etc. Hopefully they'll have an opinion on a player not their own.
Really curious to find out if analogue like tonal discrimination is possible in players like the Neodio/Eera. Since I'm still v. happy with my EMM, I'm also curious re what effects upgrading power cords/vibration control on it will make.
But thoughts from those familiar with these two players still much desired. |
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Thanks Andrew, personally I'm not going down the download/streaming route yet (I'm a bit old school!) so single box or transp/dac for me.
Glad to hear you think it sits well with your analog. What's your tt/arm/cart?
My main issue with digital is a tonal homogeneity between discs/recordings. No two lps sound the same, so well is tone rendered in analogue. Can digital via the Neodio do the same?
Are you of the opinion that the Neodio can bridge some of this consistent shortcoming in digital, and give me something closer to the individuality of good analogue? |
I am going to investigate upgrading my power cord to a Zu Event, and improve vibration control to the EMM cd before I consider upgrading the whole player. My new spkrs arriving in Oct have better HF extension, so this combination may re establish my love for the EMM.
Still considering as analogue an alternative in the Neodio/Eera, so opinions still welcome. Not going to rush this one. |
SOMusic,
You may wish to try the HRS damping plate on top of the CD player, or the Artesania damping plate. Both are excellent. I have tried them on Coplan, ARC CD players, ARC preamp, as well as my own Zanden DAC and CJ preamp. They both work really well. |
AudioPlay in the UK will be comparing the Neodio NR22 and Eera Tentation players in the not-too-distant future. |
Rx8man, can you send me a precise link to audioplay uk, I'm struggling to find it |
can't find the link either |
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Hi,
Are there news upon your quest on NEODIO, as I am interested myself ? |
Sorry Cavis, but no. The two cdp's I'm interested in (Neodio NR22 and Eera Tentation) have very little representation in the UK (Eera totally unheard of).
My requests for current owners to voice their opinions continues to fall on stony ground.
Either these two players are the route to analog like nirvana, but their owners wish to keep them a closely guarded secret, or noone has them, and claims to their superiority are to be taken with a large grain of salt.
Currently I'm really enjoying my EMM Labs CDSA SE cdp, and am not compelled to upgrade having spent the last year working towards my final tt and spkr upgrades. But I would still like to hear these two players to know what, if anything, I'm missing. |
