Thanks much all for the helpful advice. The Oppo has been set up to repeat until I put a stop to it. I am also including the Musical Fidelity and the Pioneer in the continuous play. The Pioneer has only been played once or twice in the last 25 years or more and the Musical Fidelity has only seldom been played of late so it makes sense to assume they need some break in too.
Hoping that’s all that’s needed.
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I have compared the Arcam and the Pioneer. All I have to do for a/b comparison is to mute one or the other. The Pioneer leaves the Arcam in the dust. The only difference is the Arcam is getting audio via HDMI, the Musical Fidelity/Pioneer by way of RCA interconnects.
History: The tube amp, the Audiomat Arpege, had for some time been a regular alternate to the Arcam SR250. The Arcam was used for regular tv viewing, the Arpege for musical programming. One set of speakers on each. HDMI cables to the Arcam, RCA audio interconnects between the Arpege and all video sources. Why? Because the Arcam simply didn’t sound that great in comparison. In spite of Arcam’s reputation for good sound, it’s still an AV Receiver. Believe me, considering how much it cost, I’ve wanted to like it better.
I was recently inspired to try my old Pioneer in place of the Arpege. The Pioneer was long sitting idle as the phono stage for a seldom to never used turntable. It occurred to me that it would be much better suited to the TV system than the Arpege. So I swapped around some gear. The Arpege went to the computer audio system where it’s an ideal match with the small Spendor S3/5s there. And then another idea, why not use the Musical Fidelity that was there at the computer, which had more than enough sources for the many pieces of gear in the TV room, plus a handy remote control, something much missed in the TV room! Even better, paired with the solid state Pioneer I no longer will feel I have to ration listening for fear of burning too many hours on tubes! Darn tubes are costly and I can’t change them myself which is darned inconvenient.
Result: This change is orders of magnitude better for audio and for dialogue than the Arpege and both leave the Arcam in the dust. Even my husband, no musical aficionado by a long shot, provided an unsolicited comment about how good it sounds.
I can easily switch between the Arcam and the Pioneer. The Arcam sounds somewhat muddy and somewhat veiled in comparison. The Pioneer, all 120 watts, sounds lively and clear and musical and I am loving the sound of that extra horsepower which is lurking in reserve. The Arcam is now merely a switching device, albeit a painfully overpriced one. I can even do away with the second set of speakers, as all sources are connected to both the Arcam and the Musical Fidelity/Pioneer.
The test I really want to make is to temporarily remove the Musical Fidelity and try the Pioneer alone. Remember, I am bypassing the Preamp on the Pioneer. I don’t know how much the Musical Fidelity is contributing.
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The one I’ve always had problems understanding is the mystery of burning in. Maybe it helps to have an EE degree,which I certainly dont have, Or just some deeper knowledge of the behavior of electronic parts at the electron level.
It doesn’t help when you read stories about how inconclusive are the results of double blind listening tests of interconnects.
Nevertheless, I became a “can’t hurt to try” believer reading posts about Yggdrasil DACs. When you read over and over again how awful they sound straight out of the new box they come in and how dramatic is their improvement with just a few days of burning in, it’s hard not to lose one’s skepticism . I have a friend who was a notorious skeptic about power conditioners. Until he tried one. It wasn’t even one of the ultra expensive ones. In his system, which he knows very very well, he was blown away by the dramatic difference. I’ve yet to experience that sort of a dramatic epiphany, but perhaps it’s because I’ve done very little experimenting that way.
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I’m listening now after about 48 hours of continuous play. Too soon to be sure, but my first impression is there has been some improvement, though I’m not sure how much. I need much more time for listening to a range of familiar music programming.
david-ten pointed out one of the more significant changes, moving out the Oppo 83SE in favor of the Oppo 205. I would be horribly disappointed if there weren’t a big change! I was probably too impatient as I should have waited to move in the Pioneer and the Musical Fidelity until I had listened to the new Oppo.
As an aside, I learned something important after I bought the SE. It was much touted for its special analog section (the SE part), and it was the reason I paid its premium price, but when my audio guy opened it up to put in the all region kit for me, he almost sneered when he saw the power supply, a switch mode instead of the superior linear power supply. I was pleased to learn the 205 does not have an inferior power supply - it surely ought to sound better. |
Thanks, auxinput for info on HDMI Audio. And the compliment on the Musical Fidelity! It was wasted at my computer.
It never occurred to me to try the Arcam’s digital outputs because I’ve always preferred analogue. Which gets me to thinking....I don’t believe I’ve ever tried the Arcam’s audio analog option either. Maybe the Arcam can sound better than I’ve given it credit for sounding. I will need to do more experimenting !!. For sure, the Arcam does not sing for me, but maybe I can I prove it some.
I have plenty of RCA interconnects I can cable in to try analog outputs for audio quality, but I will have to buy a digital cable to listen to its digital audio. It looks like Arcam will accept digital coax/RCA (I didn’t see S/PDIF).
PBS did me a favor today by broadcasting Tosca, a Live from the Met offering, giving me a chance to listen to music via a different source from the Oppo. There was less of a difference between the Pioneer and the Arcam, and less brightness. The Oppo is now the prime suspect for the source of some excess brightness.
hegelsjh, to answer a couple of your questions, I do bi-wire them
Slendors. My speaker wire is custom and I paid a premium for it, but it’s too long ago to remember any details.
what DAC are you using?
i have no power conditioning anywhere. When things settle down, i plan to get involved with that.
The only Ethernet connected device so far in my TV room stereo system is the Roku Ultra. I’m using Cat6a from Blue Jeans Cable. I will be attaching Ethernet cable to the Oppo as I intend to use it to support streaming.
I am soon to be adding an SSD inside a Naim Uniti Core to enable streaming. I’m hoping the Oppo will allow me to include my TV system in the streaming network. I’m a complete novice to the streaming world and have barely a clue so far. I’m terribly worried I’ll be disappointed with the audio quality, but at the same time hoping I will be pleasantly surprised.
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I must agree. My system setup is confusing! Just to turn things on I have to follow this routine. All but the last two steps have their own remote control to pick up and put down. I’ve wanted to invest in a Neeo for some time. - Turn on TV
- Turn on Arcam
- Turn on DISH DVR.
If I prefer to bypass the Arcam for audio (which so far I do) - Turn on Musical Fidelity
- Turn on Pioneer
- Mute Arcam
In the background are these sources. Arcam can switch between all of them, mostly via HDMI All sources (except Roku) have RCA Audio interconnects to Musical Fidelity Preamp - Oppo DVD UDP-205
- DISH DVR
- ROKU Ultra
- Pioneer Laser Disc CLD-99
- Panasonic VHS/DVD
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I think it’s time to just listen for awhile. A couple of weeks at least. Become more familiar with how the new components are sounding and let them settle in.
Just last night, listening to the music of Tosca via satellite TV I felt the extra brightness had gone. I also felt there was considerably less difference between the Arcam and the Pioneer. That suggests the Oppo was responsible for the brightness. But I need to listen more.
Eventually, I could bring the older Oppo back for comparison.
Eventually, I could bring back my tube amp, the Audiomat Arpege, for comparison.
Then, and only then, should I consider making any changes in cable, or speaker wire or conditioners, etc.
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Hegelsjh, you are addressing my weakest area. I’ve almost no experience with a stand-alone DAC. Let’s see if I see your point: which I think is that if all digital audio passed through a common DAC it would all sound much more similar. Is that right? I confess, if I had one, I. wouldn’t know even how to use it in my TV system.
I do own one standalone DAC, an Audio Alchemy DDP-1 that I’m using for my computer audio system via SPDIF instead of USB. In buying it, I discovered an extremely complicated world that taxes my aging brain considerably! I need a second one for my living room system and I absolutely dread the prospect of choosing one. I must say that I don’t feel at all prepared to think about one for the complicated TV system!
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I am so behind on this thread! I have to apologize for not being responsive for the last week. Just five days ago I finally took delivery of the Naim Uniti Core, which is a long awaited and much anticipated addition to my audio gear. My nephew got me started by ripping about 150 of my CDs for me, but I have been obsessively glued to the ripper for days now trying to get the remaining 300-400 CDs ripped. My experience is certainly reinforcing the rumors that classical music, and particularly opera, takes much more work because of the multiple artists usually involved, as I have to edit virtually every CD ripped. Today I ripped 60 CDs and it was exhausting. I didn’t do much else all day and don’t expect to for several more days at least.
@hegelsjh - I still haven’t quite got used to having to switch two systems and keep them in synch. So I had a little “cheat sheet” laminated so I have a cross reference which is important since the key words are not logically related. It’s really quite frustrating and I have repeatedly questioned my sanity for thinking this up. (hahahaha).
ARCAM (VIDEO SWITCHING)
SAT = TV
BD = OPPO
GAME = ROKU
AV = LASER DISC
PVR = IPAD
MUSICAL FIDELITY (AUDIO SWITCHING)
(More of the same, only worse)
@jdave - i appreciate the suggestion to use a tube amp, which i am quite partial to, but I swapped out my Audiomat Arpege in exchange for the Musical Fidelity/Pioneer combo. It was great musically but not good at all for regular dialogue dominated tv programming and didn’t have a remote for adjusting audio. And anyway, tubes are a bit extravagant when you watch a lot of tv.
@rwwear - my speakers are angled in.
@jwcondo - I’m sentimentally attached to the Pioneer and I am actually thinking of having it completely refurbished. Nevertheless, I agree, it’d be good to check out something else. I wish Audio dealers were closer though as it’s a very long drive to the nearest few and I have no developed relationship with any. I greatly miss the past when there were multiple nearby neighborhood audio dealers!
@buellrider97 - when you suggest I replace the consumer receiver with an audiophile grade player, what did you have in mind?
@auxinput - I’m glad you suggested Blue Jeans as I quite like their products, though please educate me, why it should be a minimum of 6’? I always thought the shorter the better. BTW - Compliments on your Krell. I bet it sounds way way better than my Arcam!
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Just want to add a follow up thank you to all who contributed to this thread and from which I have learned so much!
As I start to write I am on a much needed break from the boring task of ripping CDs. I am on my second listening of a SACD recording on the Oppo 205, partnered by the Pioneer SX-1050 and the Musical Fidelity A3cr. I am honestly thrilled. And quite content! Not only is the new Oppo a serious upgrade from my old Oppo 83SE, but there is no longer any sense of listener fatigue. It must be well on its way to being broken in. I am pretty sure there are many ways in which I could make my system sound even better, but honestly, I’ve lost all sense of urgency, I’m almost content to leave it all “as is”.
Almost. I am much inspired by this thread to play around with some variables when time and money permit.
- I’ve got PS Audio receptacles in my online cart, which I’m actually surprised no one has mentioned.
- I want to test out a power conditioning system for my primary audio system in the living room which is centered around my Quad ESL-63 speakers. An audio friend of mine insists it made a much more noticeable improvement in his system than any other thing he did, and he keeps pressing me to try it out. If it really makes that much of a difference then I’m sure I won’t be able to resist adding it to my TV system too.
- I won’t be able to resist trying out various interconnects.
- I’m pretty sure my speakers are toed in at just the right angle.
- All my digital cables will definitely be 6’ long! |
