Nearfield listening - once more

@atmasphere - my experience is that the sub needs to be cut off at a lower frequency than 80 hz. The Velodyne DD18 is the sub I've owned that really went low, and the crossover could be set to 40 - 45 hz. Even lower than with the two REL Strata subs I had before. Yet even at that low crossover, I was concerned about the sub positioning, and found that the DD18 sounded best, positioned in line with the speakers, or a bit in front, very directional - although this should not be the case. I have not (yet) experienced truly non-directional subs.

@o_holter My experience is similar in that I have to cross the speakers over at a frequency much lower than 80Hz. If you think about it, 40Hz is only an octave down so unless your crossover has a really complex and steep filter, there will be a substantial amount of energy above 80Hz with a 12 or even 18dB slope.

I have my sub's drivers facing the wall but my subs are Audiokinesis Swarm subs and so are designed to operate inside the room boundary effect. Most subs are not, so have to be placed well away from the wall otherwise they will be tricky as the room boundary boosts bass by about 3dB per octave as you go down. Duke's subs take advantage of this and so are designed to roll off at 3dB/octave starting at 100Hz. In this way they are flat at 20Hz, yet are compact and can be right against the wall, which is really important for space in my room.

Near fields are used specifically for studio environments where you are working close to your console, such that their polar response is quite narrow in the mids and highs  in order to reduce console reflections. they in general should not be used as everyday listening speakers unless you don't care about the room response. Most good near fields like Adams or Focal are also quite expensive ( $1000+ each),  most these days are bi-amped with XLR and digital inputs as well as 2pi or 4pi padding (low end EQing)  

Unfortunately marketing has stolen that phrase these days. satellite systems is the proper term for consumer items like what you have described.

for most listening its just better to be able to hear the room acoustics, and for better enjoyment to get your room analyzed  to see where unwanted resonances are and mechanically  remove them using  things like bookshelf's or phase detraction devices and bass traps . depending on how bad your room is. In the studio we spend a fair amount of time correcting room responses before we start using them. Best money spend is on getting your room sound good in the first place. DSP room eq's won't correct a bad sounding rooms either. 

Book shelfs work very well at preventing standing wave which cause those resonances, and are pretty cheap in comparison.

But dont use near filelds for your entertainment needs. 

Good nearfield listening must be done in a very small room ..

And the acoustic control of this small room matter very much for the S.Q. in near field listening ...

The speed of sound is such that in a room under 13 feet , the reflected waves from side and low ceiling and the direct waves participated  together in the holographic impression ...

Near listening in a non treated small room is not the same as in a treated small room.. It is my experience ...

Then saying that in near field room acoustic dont matter is not true ...😁

Thank you, all!

I have been into 'reverberant' sound, speakers trying to 'play' the room and so on since 1970 (Bose 901). The Audiokinesis Dream Maker speakers I have used the last ten years is a much more sophisticated version of this principle, made to resemble big Sound Lab panels but with dynamic/horn drivers. So I know my way around indirect sound, a little bit at least.

I think we all agree that room treatment and room/speaker synnergy is important even with nearfield listening, although the direct sound now plays a greater role. My impression is, whatever the speaker, it does play the room. You cannot avoid it, even if many speakers are designed to minimize it.

Now maybe the best thing about nearfield listening, in my case at least, with a fairly large room, is that is it not either / or. No harm is done to our living and listening room arrangement, by dragging the main listener chair closer to the speakers. The sound is just as good as it was before, in the rest of the room (unless I do some large changes of speaker positioning and toe-in - so far I have not felt the need).

@asctim - yes, very interesting experiment - it reminds me of what I hear when I have my head 'just so' a bit before and above the woofers in the speakers.

@atma-sphere - yes, from what I've read, the Swarm system is able to do the vanishing act that I ask for. Or most of it. Have never heard it, though. The bass management of the Dream Makers, with two 10 inch woofers per speaker, one in front and one at the back, is very good and pure on its own. I can hear test tones down to 28 - 25 hz or so.