My new to me Herron VTPH-2A - First impressions


Ok, so if you followed my other topic, you know I bought a used Herron VTPH-2A.  It came Monday night, and I've been listening for the past couple of days..

Being used, it didn't really need a break in, but I let it warm up for a couple hours just to be safe.

Ok, so there has been a lot of hype for this phono stage here on the forum.  I have one question.  Is it hype if it lives up to just about everything good that's been said about it?

Just comparing it to my current setup (CJ PV10a with phono stage and a SUT), running thru the CJ, it's a huge improvement.  I'll just talk in terms of musical timbre and extension here, acoustic instruments sound so much more right, and both bass and treble extension is much better.  No only is there more bass, but it's way better.  But the overall sound was still a bit soft.  Ok, so that was the CJ.

I switched over to the Bel Canto I recently got.  Sound was much better, but a little bit sterile, and the upper end was a bit harder than the CJ (not unexpected).

So I got a crazy idea.  I thought I'd see what the Herron would sound like piped directly into my power amp.  I did a little math, and some measuring of the Herron output to make sure it wouldn't overdrive or underdrive the amp's inputs, and it looked like a reasonable match.  Turns out it worked out great, it was at a very reasonable listening level.

Ok,  No upper range hardness, no softness, excellent, controlled extended bass.

Ok, so I think I have to rethink my preamp now.  Luckily, I can send back the Bel Canto (still during the trial period) and I guess I'll be looking at a new preamp.

I'll be bringing it over to a friend's house this weekend, where we'll compare it to a couple of different phono preamps he owns.
psychoticreaction

Showing 2 responses by mulveling

I’m impressed the direct connection hit a very "reasonable" volume level - props to your Math skills! That said I would not consider a 0-gain passive or buffer stage, in your shoes. You’ll need some extra gain on tap for the occasional softly cut recordings, for times when you want to "rock out", or for adjustments if you make a change to your cartridge / loading / settings / tubes.

A modern, highly regarded tube preamp in the ~ 10dB gain range (8 - 14) is what I’d shoot for. That’s high enough to help out when needed (without having to throttle the volume knob to MAX), and low enough not to cause noise issues and other discernible sonic artifacts. It’s the "sweet" spot for an analog-focused system. Passives and low gains are for folks with hot-output digital sources. Your Conrad Johnson, though probably still nice - is a (perhaps) dated, high-gain tube preamp, so no wonder it sounds a bit soft in contrast to the modern Herron. A 12ax7 in the V1/V2 slot is really not what you want for "pristine" tube preamp sound; too much gain - these tubes belong in RIAA phono stages, not line-stage. Older tube line-stage designs would use 12ax7 like this, in order to "add on" to the phono section for handling medium output MC cartridges - and that appears to be exactly what your CJ does. NOT necessary now with your Herron! I'm also not a big fan of 12au7, though having them on outputs here is an appropriate use of them. The BelCanto is solid state - and who on Earth wants a solid state preamp? (lol)

The Herron 360 preamp looks like a good play. Two gain choices: 4dB, 14dB which should actually be perfect - 4 for digital sources, 14 for analog - but don’t let that stop you from looking around a bit more before investing. A 360 would look sweet in a rack next to the Herron phono stage, to be sure!
Sorry OP, some folks appear to be really passionate about their passives lol.

To reiterate, I really think you can find that "just right" sound in a modern tube preamp. Tubes like 6922 (the Herron 360 uses this) and 6H30 are fantastic for this role. 6SN7 are great too but often tend to be a bit sweeter sounding. Stuff like 5687, 7044, 12BH7 and 6CG7 can be very cool too. Maybe 12AT7, 12AY7 are OK too. I’m not a fan of 12AU7 but gear that uses it can still sound decent, to a point (or maybe you can sub in 12BH7 haha).

I once owned a VAC Renaissance III that used a quad of 12AX7 plus a pair of 12AU7. In retrospect that’s an awful tube complement for a preamp, results in too much gain, and it’s really a miracle that it sounded at good as it did (Kevin is a genius at voicing gear). Their current preamps use 6922 and are wonderful. I’ve also really liked most of the preamps I’ve heard using 6H30 (ARC, Rogue). What's your budget? I'd assume in the range of the Herron phono?

And if you ever find yourself wanting to sweeten / plump up the sound of your system just a little bit, you can try a Bob’s Devices Sky SUT with your Herron in place of its JFET sage - assuming of course you’re using a low output MC that is appropriate for SUT use into 47K.