My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Just got done listening to the Luxman combo with Dynaudio c1s and it’s outstanding . a level of clarity that is almost unreal. That said, this wasn’t the case when i had the clx panels. I felt the arc ref6 hegel h30 had the edge in terms of slam. However, I’m about 2 days away from just buying another 900u amp and run them in mono mode... this has never been done by any reviewer or anyone at all. i am just also looking at the massive amount of money involved and that I could be tapping into xa200.8 territory in terms of dollars spent and i highly doubt that the Luxman 900us in mono mode could best the xa200.8s. For right now, the Luxman and Dynaudio c1 is one hell of a combination. We will see once my clx speakers return in about 2 weeks. These monsters seemed to benefit from the massive power of the Hegel which is why i thought the 900u In mono mode would be ideal.
Ottablue, thanks for sharing your experiences with the 900u combo. The pair produces a truly amazing sound that is so full of texture in a great 3D soundstage. In an attempt to solve the hissing problem, I bought an Isotek Corvus power filter this week to which the whole system was connected. There was no change to the level of hiss running the M-900u in balanced mode. In single ended mode and with the C-900u set to “external pre” (I also use the combo with an Anthem processor in an Atmos setup), the speakers emanated a continuous buzz. It seems that the Isotek and both the Luxmans are a bad combination! I then connected the M-900u to another power strip that I use for a router and a laptop power supply, and to my big surprise, most of the hiss was gone! The hiss is still there but it’s very faint and almost on the level with the Bryston. The Brystons are even more quiet, though. I can conclude that the Luxmans are quite sensitive to less than optimal power conditions. My dealer is going to let me try some power cords from Transparent, but I’m not too happy with having to spend time on experimenting with those, because I find cables so extremely boring, especially power cords. But I acknowledge that power cords can affect the system in a bad way, if they are not properly magnetically shielded. In EU the 900u are sold with a cheap generic cord, probably due to a missing CE Marking on their cords. Which power cords do you use? Interconnects are from Luxmans ultimate series.
Nebob, you should not hear any hiss while luxman m900u and c900 is on and no music is played. I own the combo and love the craftmenship and the sound that comes through makes me not think of upgrades on that front in the foreseeable future. If I were you check your interconnects I bet you picking hiss somewhere along that path.
Ok guys, my Clx are at the Martinlogan factory getting a full refresh. That said I can’t sit around and wait 3 weeks for them to come back so I bought a pair of Dynaudio c1s and a pair of c2s Platinums. What an amazing sound with the luxman. Wow. Insane sound.
Unfortunately no . I bought a step up converter for a Silvaweld preamp years ago though . From my research it did not have to be expensive . Are there audiophile converters ? probably not . Almarg probably will have a good suggestion .
yes, i have owned anthem p5. Excellent workhorse and very heavy. It is up there in terms of quality, but nothing close to the plinius odeon. Please note, i will be giving a shot to the simaudio mc8 in the near future. I just need to figure out how i am going to do it since this is a 220v unit. They never built it 110v.
@whitecamaross Without a doubt Pass Labs is a winner and thats whats gonna be my next amp, most likely a X350.5. Didnt go through the entire thread/your entire post but read that IYO, you lose details in a 5 channel ( rephrased) amp that you get in a dedicated two channel. I’d agree that it is true in most cases and to the same logic can be applied to two channel vs mono blocks. Having said that, did you give the Anthem P5 a try? My knowledge may be limited but I havent found a more work horse type 5 channel that weighs over 140 lbs and has not one but two power chords not to mention 325 watts RMS. I am running my ML Theos and plan to by amp them making better use of multiple channels. The other interesting choice could be Classe CA 5300.
i just tried the amp with the audio research preamp and a pair of dynaudio speakers and i don't hear any hissing out of my tweeters. i suspect your issue might be the preamp. Try using high quality power cords and connect both, the amp and the preamp to different outlets.
Hi, it is tough for me to hear any hiss because i own electrostatics. i might try a pair of small dynaudio bookshelf speakers and report back to you. Yes the amp runs hot, but so does pass labs, plinius, etc and any other exceptional amp i have owned. i wouldnt worry about it. I still love the luxman combo and will report back once my speakers are 100%. The hegel is no slouch though and sounds amazing with the audio research reference 6. Incredible sonics to say the least.
Thanks for your input, robd2. (Sorry whitecamaross, I have no intention to hijack your thread). It's the M900 that produces the hiss, because it's there even if it's disconnected completely from the preamp. Maybe the noise floor is not as low as with the Bryston. I noticed this hiss with an M-700u and my two M-200, but luckily it seems to be less with the M-900u .There is a faint hiss from the Bryston as well, but it's almost inaudible even with my ear very very close to the tweeter. The Luxman 900u combo is still incredible, though.
If it helps you, last week I had the C900 in house hooked to a Mac amp and did this exact test as I hate that hiss. Dead quite until volumne on the Luxman went >90% up. Exceptional preamp by the way.
The hiss is there even when the volume is turned off. The hiss gets more audible when the volume on the C-900u is increased. I haven't tried the Bryston with the C-900u yet. The NADAC was connected directly into the 14B3.
robd2, I can't hear the hiss from the listening position. But it's audible when putting the ear close to the tweeters. It's on all sources, and it's also present if I disconnect all sources.
Wonderful thread, whitecamaross! Thanks for sharing your vast experience with us. In the reviews of the Luxman M-900u and Hegel H30 at Soundstage.com Doug Schneider compares the M-900u with the H30. While he thinks the H30 is very good, he finds the depth of soundstage to be lacking a bit with the H30. Is that your experience as well? I received the Luxman 900u combo a few days ago, and I must say that both the sound and build quality are amazing. I use them with Merging NADAC and Vivid Giya G2. I find the M-900u to run a bit hot, though, and there is a bit of a hiss coming from the tweeters that can only be heard when putting the ear close to them, With my Bryston 14B3 the speakers are dead quiet.
My wife and i did some listening between the 900u amp and hegel h30 a few nights ago. On one night, she had the luxman as the better amp and i had the hegel h30 so then we decided to try again another night and she chose the hegel the next night and said something very interesting to me which was that she felt like the luxman sounded amazing with certain songs and the hegel with others. I find this comment very true and i can really understand where she is coming from. The one thing i love about the hegel is that it runs cool as cucumber and it is very powerful. The luxman runs warm after extended listening sessions and it sounds best when left on all the time.
Leo, if you are looking for the best highs and mids, the luxman 900u is really all you need. You can use 2 of these in mono configuration if you wish and you will have all the power you need.
The no585 sounds amazing when you consider the money you are spending. Is it better than the luxman combo or hegel/arc 6 combo? no it is not, but you can't expect it to be when you consider the prices of each. That said, it is the best all in one box i have ever owned. I feel like it gives me about 80-85% of what the luxman or hegel combo gives me. That is A HELL OF A LOT of return on your money. The only reason why i can hear that it is 80%-85% is because of my MASSIVE ELECTROSTATIC PANELS that allow me to clearly hear the differences. That said, if you had more "normal" speakers then it makes no sense to spend the kind of money that separate components are when the you probably won't hear a big difference if your speakers are not of this caliber. Yes, i totally feel like the 585 would the the integrated that someone can own for the next 5 years and be perfectly happy with it.
I live in Ecuador and don’t have any chance to test listen any gear here. What I’am trying to achieve...? The best mids and highs, because my speakers have amps for the bass.
True enough, Whitecamaross, ROwland M925 took about 1500 hours to break in completely. THis has been the longest break-in that I have experienced on an amp.
Most amplifiers that have been in my system took about 1000 hours to reach their full performance.
The only amp that I recall taking only 600 hours has been the Merrill Teranis.
Mcintosh 2301 are indeed at the bottom. That’s the least appealing amp for me after hearing the audio research gs150, it killed my 2301s. Not even close and the 2301s have sloppy bass which the gs150 does not. Rowland 925s are great but it’s a chore to break them in. Some say 1,000 to 2,000 hours to break them in and well for me that’s a lifetime. I heard those with the Rowland preamp and it sounded good but not worth all the money they are asking for. I think their preamps are decent but nothing like your audio research 10. The best preamps I’ve heard are the audio research reference 6, Luxman 900u and then pass labs xp30. To me, these are the best preamps without having to spend crazy money.
Luxman pre and pass pre: hard comparison. The pass xp30 is outstanding. It comes down to what amplifiers you are using and what do you listen to. Luxman c900u preamp has a larger soundstage, tube like highs, excellent mids. It’s truly a musical preamp. The pass labs has lots of detail, slam, dynamics but it can get edgy at times if not using the proper electronics.
I’m thinking about improving my amps (Rogue Apollos). My preamp is an ARC Ref. 10, Bricasti M1 DAC and Evolution Acoustics MM3 speakers. Amps options considering: Jeff Rowland M925 VTL Siegfried 2 D’Agostino M300 Momentum ARC Ref.250 SE Mcintosh MC2301
HEGEL H30/ ARC REF 6 COMBO: I loved everything about this combination. Insane dynamics, smoothness, detail, clarity & resolution, big soundstage. I can now understand why the hegel h30 went up in retail value from 15k to 17k this year. I am really loving the synergy between these 2. What an immense wall of sound. What i find interesting is that the hegel h30 runs cooler than the arc ref 6 preamp. Yes, it runs amazingly cool and does not break a sweat.
Luxman 900u amp/ arc ref 6 combo: the best midrange i have EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE has been presented by these 2 components regardless of any amp i have ever owned before. The luxman 900u with its spectacular midrange and the tubes from the preamp present a midrange that sounds better than if you heard a person speak in front of you. It almost feel like you can hear the saliva in the mouth of the performer. The highs are world class by all accounts and lack absolutely NOTHING. If you are a person who enjoys music purity, finesse, detail, high resolution and the last ounce of silkiness without any fatigue, this combo will make your jaw drop to the ground. This IS YOUR TICKET. It won't come cheap though because the amplifier does not show up often and when it does, it is gone in hours for over $10k. Far superior amplifier than simaudio 860a, plinius 103, pass labs 250.8 and possibly besting the 350.8 in resolution, clarity, but not attack since the 350.8 has more power. Getting a luxman 900u is like getting a ferrari without trying a mercedes amg, bmw m series, audio r8 etc. You completely leap over a ton of amplifiers.
Just picked up the audio research reference 6 again and I’m blown by it once again. As bad as I want to keep my luxman pieces, I just don’t think the outcome will change for the better once my panel is replaced. I am starting to feel slowly wrapped around by the sound of this ref6 preamp. I’m using the Hegel 30 and krell 403e as my amps and I’m switching between both for now using the reference 6 to see what I feel happens in terms of sound. Panels love juice without a doubt. They need high voltage. Luxman 900u amp And preamp are beyond gorgeous. Far better construction than anything else I’ve owned including pass labs. The sound is ridiculously engaging and smooth throughout. It’s possibly the best preamp an amp combo I’ve ever heard. That said, with panels, I simply would need another 900u to run both in mono mode. My panels need more voltage than what the single 900u amp can give. Right now, I will probably part ways with my luxman pieces. I hope I don’t regret down the road because they are beyond hard to come by.
Sorry guys- I discovered a bad panel on my clx speakers. I will have to re-evaluate things again once they are 100%. For now, take my feedback above as partially correct until I get everything sorted out. I will report once my clx are back up and running.
Thanks! for the update -whitecamaross Enjoying your shoot-out. Is the Luxman running in class-A? If so, that explains more Bass than the Hegel. Too bad Hegel is made in china. Keep listening and posting.
I can honestly say that the HEGEL H30 is the top contender to the pass
labs x350.8. I wished i still had my x350.8 amp so i can compare. What a
battle that would be. I have to say that the hegel h30 and pass 350.8
are neck to neck. If i am going to go on the performance per dollar
route, the hegel is the clear winner hands down.
How about that and made in China. Happy listening and Keep ME posted!!!
Hegel h30/C900u Preamp: great slam and dynamics. Really good full sound with plenty of body. Mids are satisfying and highs are smooth.
Luxman C900u/M900u: More bass than hegel h30/c900u combo which is surprising since this amp is half the power of the Hegel. The mids of this combo outshine the hegel’s h30. The highs are very very close but the extra ounce of silkiness goes to the luxman.
Overall i really like the Hegel h30. i will say that this amp has really surprised me. I really like what this amp is all about and the great horsepower and overhead makes it an excellent amp for those of you with monster speakers such as rockports, magicos, etc. I can honestly say that the HEGEL H30 is the top contender to the pass labs x350.8. I wished i still had my x350.8 amp so i can compare. What a battle that would be. I have to say that the hegel h30 and pass 350.8 are neck to neck. If i am going to go on the performance per dollar route, the hegel is the clear winner hands down.
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