2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128jays_audio_lab
20,890 responses 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I am just not the person to do mods. Maybe one day I might venture into that, but as ron17 said, I really don't have the bandwidth to do that. 

speedbump6
760 posts
 
Because it’s not just about amps, and there’s not a category for amp and speakers. It’s also about dacs and speaker cables, and cable risers and racks, etc etc. it’s about whatever the latest that Jay has added to his system to test. There’s no reason why there can’t be multiple topics being discussed at the same time, pick the ones you’re intrested in and ignore the ones you’re not. I’m happy to talk about anything that affects a systems performance short of chants and mystical spells, lol. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
So when i started this thread 4 years ago and began to give my impressions on the NAD M25 power amp, i had no clue i would end up going on a Gryphon Mephisto let alone a pair of $140k Focal Stella Evo speakers.
There is an element of truth to the fact that this is an amplifier thread, but could you imagine if i had to create a separate thread for each speaker, each cable, each dac that i reviewed? how could i maintain 3,4,5,6,etc separate threads? i simply could not do it.

Anyhow, i have been getting a tremendous amounts of emails and comments from people who want me to play their songs through my speakers to which i have no problem doing, but you all gotta keep in mind that Youtube has copyrights in place so i can not play ANY SONG i want.
If you want to know if one the songs you want me to play is allowed by youtube, all you need to do is search for the song on youtube and see if there is ANYONE playing this song through their system somewhere. That is a good indication that i probably can play it too. I think Fleetwood Mac is not allowed because i have tried to play it and it keeps getting declined and it is the same story with the Eagles "Hotel California".
I might "take requests" (i feel like a DJ) and do about 10 songs for bout 2 min each for a total of 20 min.
If there is anyone interested, let me know, but please do your homework first to be sure your song is allowed by youtube.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
speedbump6,
Good, so how do the Tekton Ulf's compare to your Wilson?

All,
I mentioned Tekton again because of Jay's statement about the benefits of Be tweeters in the Focal Stella.  The patented tweeter array of Tektons also lets the Be tweeter driver cover much of the midrange, down to 270 Hz.  I don't know why Focal hasn't used Be for their midrange drivers.  Often a company has established relationships with suppliers, and it is natural to want to fully develop the non-Be driver.  But why has the modestly priced Paradigm Persona line developed Be midrange drivers, which are also used down to about 50 Hz in their cheapest model B for $7K?

Remember that the speaker is the most critical component.  Since Jay has found much greater resolution in the Stella vs Alexia 2, I won't be surprised if he finds greater resolution using the Parasound JC1+ with the Stella, compared to Mephisto with the Alexia 2.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Agree with zprr on Tekton. Doesn’t really belong in this thread UNLESS WC gets them. He is well aware but has bypassed so far because they don’t meet his quality standards, or for whatever reason - doesn’t really matter. Bottom line, he could easily get them if he thought they were worthy but he has not. Deal with it.

I like that the thread is not strictly amps, and the discussion of preamps and speakers and cables is all good, but it’s much better to keep it to things that WC has had.

There are plenty of other threads on A’gon for the Tekton folks, and those of us interested in the stuff WC has can conveniently ignore all of them.

The minute WC changes course and brings in a Tekton, I’ll happily stand corrected.

Note I’m not saying never appropriate to suggest or briefly discuss other options, but the Tektons now encroaching into GTA territory for non-relevant-to-WC-journey stuff that really doesn’t belong in THIS thread. Suggesting once is cool. Going on for pages just pollutes the thread.
carey1110's avatar
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carey1110
566 posts
 
Hard to say what belongs here and what doesn’t. Threads have a tendency to take on a life of their own and evolve in many different directions. You’ll never change that. Topics will vary according to everyone’s input. Just the way it is. You ride the wave you like, when it’s over you just paddle back out and wait for the next one you like. Pretty simple.🏄🏻‍♂️
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I am a believer that there is stuff out there that really performs above its price point. I can not confirm or deny if Tekton or GT Audio are at the level of a Stella Evo because i have never heard them here in my room - where it matters to me.

I am sure i will continue to try more speakers in the future, but i want you all to understand that the logistics when it comes to speakers are tough and it requires man power plus the space to store all those crates.
i would love to try different speakers every month, but that is unfortunately not possible. Speakers - in my humble opinion - are the hardest thing to sell once you are done with them. Granted, if you have the newest Wilson, Magico, etc it won’t be too hard to sell in the beginning, but after a few years you won’t be able to sell them for what you want, but rather for what the market brings.
I would LOVE to have a Magico M3, Focal Stella Evo, Wilson Alexx in here all at once, but i do not have the space and i cant store those huge crates in here.

In closing, i am NOT OPPOSED to bringing Tekton speakers and do not be surprised if i somehow end up with a pair in here, but PLEASE keep in mind that i will be as objective as possible with them. I do not want to hurt anybody’s feelings (specially Tekton owners) if i find the speakers less than what they are praised to be.
I have also kept in touch with Steve from GT Audio and i expressed my sentiments to him about comparing his speakers against whichever speaker i have here:
I need to hear them HERE, with my electronics, in my room, and in an environment that i am familiar with. Until that takes place, we can not speculate that their speakers are superior to any speaker regardless of price. The only thing you all need to know is that whichever speaker i bring here (Tekton, GT audio, etc) is sure to be used with top electronics and cables. There will not be any excuses as to why they did or did not perform.
I truly believe that the only thing i need to do with speakers here is perhaps have a different set of speaker cables, xlrs, powercords and nothing else. Gryphon Mephisto & Pandora as well as Boulder 2110 and DCS Rossini w/clock have the front end covered. I do not believe i need to worry about my preamplification, source or amplification at all.
I also feel like if you are a relatively small speaker manufacturer, WHY wouldn’t you want your speakers to be in the same room as the Focal Stella Evos and Gryphon Mephisto? What a better chance for marketing for your product than to hear it with this quality of electronics? Granted, most Tekton buyers would not be the demographic for a Mephisto (i get it), but think about how awesome it would be to hear what a Tekton is capable of with a machine like the Mephisto? i have been vocal about this behind the scenes with some manufacturers FYI.
I have YET TO HEAR a Gryphon amplifier sound bad with ANY SPEAKER.
If i am trying to penetrate a certain market with a new car brand and Toyota has allowed me display my product in one of their dealerships, WHY wouldn’t i jump at the opportunity if i know my product is good? yes, i know i am not Toyota, but you get my point.
i am waiting for GT Audio or Tekton to put a pair of their speakers at my door for me to evaluate for at least one month. Yes, it costs them money to ship to me and to ship them back, but isn't that the cost of embarking on a business venture?  
carey1110's avatar
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carey1110
566 posts
 
WC True but as you’ve always said synergy between speakers and the system is so important regardless of how good the electronics are.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Would be kinda fun.  Maybe they can't even beat Maggie 20.7?  Let's start there and not get carried away with comparisons to Wilson or the present Focals.

Why wouldn't you want to hurt feelings?  If they underwhelm, they underwhelm.  Just say it if that is the case, like you did with Accuphase and McIntosh and Martin Logan 13a.

Don't pussyfoot around to avoid hurting feelings.  Give us the honest scoop, good or bad.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@kren:

i understand what you are saying about being honest and blunt, but i am trying to stay in my lane and not hurt feelings or shut doors for me by going on an all out assault if something does not deliver. I know some people want me to be as vocal as Trump, but i can’t quite deliver things like that if it means i can ruin any future endeavors. I can still be honest, but with a little more "feeling" if that makes any sense. Dont get me wrong, some days i am in a "all assault mode" but that ends up coming back to me down the road.
If you all knew HOW MANY other things i could disclose here publicly about some manufacturers, gear, what goes on behind the scenes, customer service, etc, etc, but i simply can’t.
I am more well-known each day and i didn’t even know the impact i can have. Just the other day, i got a call from a dealer who told me a customer walked into his store and the first sentence out his mouth was: " i want to tell you, i am a BIG Jay’s Audio Lab" fan and i want to hear two components he recommended (vivid audio, Gryphon Essence)"
4 hours later he bought Vivid Audio Speakers and the Essence Linestage with Stereo Amp... I was shocked to hear this because it doesn’t register in my head the impact i have, but this gave me a reality check and now i have to begin to re-evaluate my approach while STILL remaining transparent and giving my audience the truth.

I am a small-timer when compared to other audiophile channels and i get it, but i have identified my spot and plan to give you all what NOBODY ELSE is doing on youtube. Remember, these channels do this for a living and i do not. I am not going to imitate other channels, but i will rip a page or two out of their books to improve my own channel. I look forward to the future to see where i will be 5 years from now.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
@carey1110 

Correct. Synergy is extremely important and it seems to be the most important thing for me lately. That said, remember i keep plenty of components here at once so i am sure i would have an amp that would work with any speaker unless that speaker ONLY works well with tube and at that point i think the speaker would be disqualified for me. I do not believe in designs where you can only use a certain type of amplifier technology or else the speaker fails. 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Agree that if those two speaker brands are so great, why are the manufacturers scared to send their products for a demo???

Until they do that you are giving them free advertising here by providing the forum for these fanboys to drone on about them, when the manufacturers (it sounds like) have been invited to step into the ring but they are (again, apparently, reading between the lines, correct if wrong) so far scared to do so.

So unless or until that happens (or if one of the fanboys is so interested Jay has invited them to send their stuff - Viber, still waiting -), why not stick to discussing the stuff in the room or previously reviewed in the room. Otherwise these non-reviewed companies are just getting press they don’t deserve in this thread.


Let me boil this down for those who don’t understand what WC is saying: He ain’t buying the two speakers at issue. Too bad. If manufacturers or fanboys want them in the primetime lineup, step into the ring. Otherwise go away (as it pertains to these products).

As WC gloriously rebuked one member recently, "line up or shut up"

WC, sometimes silence speaks much louder than bluster. It is pretty obvious why some manufacturers (or forum members) might not want to be compared against hi-end stuff head2head. That’s okay, but then this isn’t the right thread for those. And again, you now have a top system (Gryphon/Boulder/Stella) and a budget system (Parasound/Maggie), both good, so any product at almost any price level should not be afraid to step into the ring. There is a weight class for all components in Jay’s room
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
I get it, if you are a new speaker company and you are trying to step into the ring with a speaker of a price tag of $140k, you have to make sure you have your ducks in a row or else it can create difficulties for you if you lose.
Videos go viral and if you failed to deliver then that would not be good for business. Focal & Wilson are HUGE companies with massive money so if you are targeting their customers then you have to be prepared to understand that you could also end up failing. This is no different than the small brick & mortar retailers that tried to take on Amazon and have now shut doors.
if you take on ANY heavy hitter, you gotta be aware that you can also get knocked out and this punch might put you to sleep forever. You are not taking Wilson & Focal & Magico out of business - LET’S KEEP THIS REAL -no matter how good your speakers are, but Wilson, Focal & Magico CAN knock you out and dig your own grave. That is why it is important to make sure you are strategic and understand WHO YOU ARE TODAY and WHO you would ultimately like to be. There is a huge difference.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
That’s EXACTLY my point!

And exactly why they aren’t really appropriate for this thread at this time (at least until they make an appearance in the ring). BINGO!!!!!

Nobody except Viber seriously expects them to beat Wilson or Focal Stella.

They don’t have to. But can they beat Magnepan 20.7 (or even 3.7i)??? Can they beat Martin Logan 13a?? Or other speakers in the $10-15k price tier. Can they survive in your lower-end, budget system currently including Parasound JC1+ and Maggie 20.7?

That’s more realistic. What’s to be afraid of there??

Are there giant killers out there? Maybe. But let’s see it. "line up or shut up"
thezaks
712 posts
 
This expectation that any speaker manufacturer is expected to provide WC with a pair of speakers seems just ridiculous to me.  Do we have that expectation of Magnepan, Revel, ML, Wilson, Focal, Rockport, etc, etc?  Why not?  If we have that expectation from Tekton, then why not any of the others?   Why single-out a specific brand?  

So what if a few folks here are suggesting a lower-priced option that might be better than its price. If WC is not interested, then he doesn't have to consider it, and discussion can be just speculation.   Nothing wrong with that.   However, we do have one of the folks here with both Wilson and Tekton, so maybe that person can comment. 

Ultimately, it's good discussion - I'm interested and curious.  If you don't think it's appropriate for this thread, then either scroll past or take it up with a moderator to get an objective point of view. 

Dave


viber6
2,444 posts
 
The 1st most important step is speedbump6's comparison of the Tekton Ulf flagship with his Wilson.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Very simple, Dave. Because WC has NO INTEREST IN PURCHASING GTA or Tekton, unlike some of the others you mentioned. And it’s HIS MONEY AND THREAD!!!

He obviously does not feel they are worth his investment. I know that is very hard for some of you to deal with.

So if others feel so strongly that something should be considered by WC (Bryston, Rane, Mytek, GTA, Tekton, whatever...), then provide it. The invitation has been extended. Simple. And if it is not accepted, well, that speaks volumes too.

That’s what so many here apparently fail to understand.

And then at that point that’s what other threads are for, I’d submit. Just my opinion.

thezaks
712 posts
 
kren0006,
Some folks have suggested Alexx as well, but I don't see that in your list.  Lots of other things have been suggested  - not in your list.   Your list seems to narrow focus to certain individuals suggestions.
So what if WC isn't interested in purchasing - I already mentioned that.  There's a lot he's not interested in purchasing.  Doesn't mean we cannot discuss it.  This is an open forum and it's Audiogon's forum and thread.
Plus, even if WC does not have an interest in a piece of equipment, you never know if someone else has had experience with what WC has had, as well as one of these items that WC is not interested in.  In fact, we do have someone who has Wilson and Tekton, so there you go.  I, for one, am interested in hearing what this user has to say.
Again, if it's not interesting to you, then move on and scroll by or contact a moderator. 

Dave
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Speedbump
The mic is yours. Care to share your thoughts on your tekton speaker and Wilson audio daw that you also own ?
Post removed 
thezaks
712 posts
 
kren0006,I was just kindly offering options, since you are trying to exert control over this thread.
Dave
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
No I’m not trying to exert control over the thread. I have no power or desire to do that.

Just trying to keep the discussion on track to stuff WC has or is reviewing by making a suggestion. Very simple.

I’d actually very much like if others sent WC stuff to review. Please do. I’m not against any products, but this is a high performance thread and the products must either be able to hang, or not.

Otherwise there are other threads.

Just my opinion. I said that previously but repeating for you.
speedbump6
760 posts
 
As far as I’m concerned anyone should feel free to offer up ideas, and also I think one of the ideas of what Jay does is to get people thinking about different products, and how they might work together. He’s continuously changing equipment, so I do think it’s a very relevant discussion to be had. We need to all be a bit more tolerant of each other’s ideas and subject matter. I get that the benchmark discussion was not relevant because of the price points we are discussing. If the Tekton’s were marketed through a distribution channel, and the cabinets prettied up to meet the market demand at the new price points it would then have to be sold at, we are deep into Wilson and focal levels. It only appears cheaper because of being direct marketed and basic cabinet design and finishes. Yes, I do think it would indeed compete with speakers that have been shown in jays system. And for viber, they are upstairs in my home theater system and moving them over to the two channel systems would be a lot of work and much complaining from the wife, lol. It would be easier for me to send them to Jay to try in his system than it would be for me to do in mine, mostly because of the wife. I don’t mind moving them, but my wife is not so understanding of my passions and jays is his. The home theater has some very good equipment, just not to the level of what’s in the two channel. Based on what I hear with that being said, I do think the Tekton’s would fare very well. I really would have no problem at all if jay tried them and found them to be lacking. I’d rather him give us what he really thinks, then to try to not hurt feelings. I’m not a “ fanboy” of any product because of a name, or anything else. Each product has to stand on its on merits, whatever they are, is what they are. I’m not trying to push tektons, or any other product on anyone. If asked, I’m happy to give my thoughts, if I hear something in jays system that I am able to use them as a comparison, I will, as so many here have done over time. 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Speedbump
Please share your thoughts when you can. You can also send me the video directly and I can post on my YouTube channel if you'd like me to. Let me know what i can do to facilitate this. 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Got it: they’re in the home theater system. 

I want to clarify my opinion. I agree that suggestions are great. 

What isn’t great is endlessly droning on about a product that WC has made clear he has no interest in purchasing. That is what has occurred here with each of those in my list above.
thezaks
712 posts
 
kren0006,
I definitely understand what annoys you in this situation and that you prefer to discuss equipment that WC has owned.    I'm sure there are also others that feel the same way you do.
And, there are others that don't mind discussing equipment that WC has not owned.  You mentioned "endlessly droning", but to me they are small discussions that come up every so often over the life of this thread.  Then they disappear for a while and then come back again - probably because of some trigger.  Like viber6 mentioned, the trigger for him was the tweeters. 

The nice thing about these small discussions and speculations is that they might produce fruit at some point in the future.  For example, we did not have speedbump6 posting on this thread until recently, but now that Tekton gets brought up again for the nth time, we find out that he has both Wilson and Tekton.   And, in the future we might find another user who owns both a product that WC has owned, along with one of the products that folks are speculating about.
Everyone has their own levels of tolerance - some don't mind the small discussions and some mind it very much.  That's why it's easier to suggest to scroll by those discussions  for those who do mind it very much.
Dave
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
See, this is where your late arrival to the thread shows through, no offense intended (seriously).

If I could figure out how to do it I would post the stats on how many time each of those brands in my list have been brought up in the course of the thread, and my "droning on" comment would probably look generous.

Other dude posted the stat for "Bryston" and it was like 10,000 times or something ridiculous.

But again, I am just trying to keep the thread on track, as was mentioned today by another we had a few good days and now here comes Tekton again when WC has said he doesn’t think investment in it makes sense. Take the hint, guys!!

But life is short.  If you must, I cannot stop you, haha
kps25sc
149 posts
 
Plenty of "giant sleigher" treads on Audiogon, it's nice with a actual giant thread for once !
viber6
2,444 posts
 

speedbump6,

Thanks for your feedback so far.  Can you play a 2 channel audio recording thru your HT player?  If not, it won't be physically demanding to insert a CD player to play audio CD's.  Of course, your HT electronics are probably not of the quality as in your 2 channel audio system with Wilson, but I think the basic character of the Tekton Ulf should be able to be compared with that of Wilson.  Tonal balance, HF detail, focus, etc., even if the HT room has different acoustics from the audio room.

thezaks
712 posts
 
kren0006,
I've been on this thread for ~4 years now - so if that's late arrival, then guilty as charged. BTW, have you been posting on this thread for longer than that?
I doubt that there were 10,000 posts for a Bryston stat in this thread.  Not sure where you are getting that number?
I think a good stat would be to compare the number of actual posts on the Tekton in the last page or two vs. the number of posts that have resulted from your comment that started this back/forth.  I imagine many folks are just scrolling past our back/forth.

Again, just a suggestion to scroll by the posts you don't like, so that you end up with the posts that make you happy, and we can eliminate this back/forth and have less posts for folks to scroll by.

Dave




carey1110's avatar
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carey1110
566 posts
 
thezaks. I agree. No one should can or will keep it on track. The thread will flow as it will. Some people try to police the thread and they sound hilarious. Like they are WCs thread bodyguard or groupie. Lol 😂 
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
Oops, okay I got that wrong.  My apologies.
Post removed 
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Can we move on ? Let’s continue to sail this ship together and try to get along as best as possible.


@carey1110
It has nothing to do with groupies as you like to call them. Some people (i assume) are passionate about what i am doing and it checks a lot of those boxes that are important to them. It has nothing to do with anyone being a groupie. I think it has more to do with them not wanting to be distracted by things they feel aren’t as interesting.
Yes, as someone said above, they don’t want this thread to become just another "giant sleigher" thread. What has taken this thread to have over one million views, 13,000 posts, and to be the longest running thread in the history of audiogon isn’t because of giant sleigher stories. That’s not how it has gotten this far.
The truth is, and yes I will post a screenshot of the email youtube sent me, people are interested in seeing me own the exorbitant expensive stuff. Am I making this up? No, i can present facts by looking at the number of views on my last 3 videos after I introduced the Stella EVO. Analytics don’t lie and they are saying: " Jay, people want to see you go to the extreme and report back findings"
Again, numbers speak for themselves. I don’t make them up.

Imagine if I were to edit 2 videos and make one single video of my Stella vs Alexia 2 and then added a poll on youtube asking which speaker sounds best ? Wouldn’t that create controversy... And at the end, what will people say? Here is what they will say:
"Oh I don’t care what others voted. I like what I like.
" Oh they are deaf and don’t understand audio"
" It is about preferences and it appears more people preferred the speaker I didn’t"
Etc
Etc
Wilson owners will come out to defend and so will focal lovers. The argument wouldn’t end and while they argue, Jay will be working on crating up the speaker and bringing over a new speaker because he doesn't fall in love with any of it...i have to remain cold-blooded to keep pushing forward and not be enamored by any of it. Yesterday was Wilson, today Focal, tomorrow Magico, Rockport, or any brand that catches my attention.




carey1110's avatar
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carey1110
566 posts
 
Oooh guess I hit a sensitive spot. 🤐. Hey it’s a thread on Audiogon. Some will take more serious than others I guess. 
thezaks
712 posts
 
WC,
It’s been mentioned before in this thread (and you somewhat agreed) that you have folks who come here put other users in their place, because you don’t want to be the guy that does that. So, carey1110 might be more spot on with his comment than he even realizes. Not saying it’s a bad thing - it’s just something that has happened in this thread.

I agree with carey1110 - it's a thread on Audiogon, and the thread just flows as it will. I think the talk of things like Rane, Tekton, etc are short-lived snippets that drop in from time to time. Really, the thing that draws them out more is folks commenting on how they should not mention those items. Just scroll by and let it go, and it will disappear. If it does not, there’s nothing wrong with asking a moderator to encourage those folks to start a new thread on their topic.
Dave

jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Dave:
I don’t want to intervene unless I see it keeps going. I don’t mind people exchanging a few thoughts, but if I see it starts to derail then I’ll say something.
That said, calling people groupies is really one behavior that is similar to what techno was doing which was calling groupies = cheerleaders. This is one reason why techno was suspended from posting which is why he was gone. I’m simply trying to make sure others understand this. Nothing else. If techno was held to a certain standard then the rest have to also comply. It has nothing with me being sensitive, but rather me shining a light on something that someone else was punished for. 
thezaks
712 posts
 
Understood WC.  I see some removed posts as well, so perhaps we're at a good breakpoint and we can move forward as you mentioned and get along as best as possible.
Dave
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Alright. Let’s switch gears.

Today I began to position the focals and got them to open up even more. My video will talk about what i did different and will also show you a couple of new songs that will probably be on your list of new tracks to use in your own system.
I love the flexibility found in this speaker. I have never owned such a flexible speaker before. It’s huge but it also disappears even in a medium size room. I keep getting impressed by it.
carey1110's avatar
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carey1110
566 posts
 
WC I agree with you 100%. So happy you are enjoying your new speakers. I’m sure they are simply amazing. 
mr_gray
61 posts
 
i just read a whole page  that sometimes referenced a comparison of tekton's and wilson but never saw the actual comparison of tekton's and wilson.  did it get deleted?  what were speedbump's thoughts?
techno__dude
511 posts
 
There seems to be more objective opinions lately. Maybe a lot of subjectivity was from hardcore Wilson defenders who can’t tolerate criticism. Well, Wilsons are  gone and simply outmatched by a much bigger maker which is Focal.

And we also have new ideas, like Tektons and their potential. It is a good thing to see the whole and the relatively , not just the highly moly creamy on top...

speedbump6
760 posts
 
Tecno. It seems the Wilson bias is more on your part than anyone else’s. Both Wilson and focal make great speakers. You’re the only one who seemed bothered by the Wilson’s. There are other high end makes that I’m sure could be compared favorably than just those two makes. The way Jay moves through things, just keep patient if your favorite isn’t there, it could be maybe in a few months. 
speedbump6
760 posts
 
Wow, crickets.
techno__dude
511 posts
 
speed if you would please care to read and follow , it’s not Wilson vs Focal anymore. It’s Wilson vs Tekton...😉
Focal is in another class.
viber6
2,444 posts
 
Techno,
No, in the world of beryllium, it's Focal with a single Be tweeter going down to about 2000 Hz vs Tekton with multiple Be tweeters going down to 270 Hz.  As speedbump6 suggested, the top Tektons with all Be tweeters would cost $30-40K if sold through dealers.  But for the bargain of half that, you are protected by a return guarantee, although their weight assures that only serious buyers go for them.
speedbump6
760 posts
 
It’s not tektons vs anything. They haven’t been heard in the system. Now let’s take the Wilson chronosonic and compare  the focals. That’s less of a percentage difference between it and the focals, than the focals are vs the alexias. I’d be willing to bet that it wouldn’t be so much of a contest. If your point is that it takes a focal that costs three times as much as the Wilson to beat it, then I would agree. There was a heads up comparo of a somewhat similar priced focal to the sashas and the Wilson’s won that particular event, with that particular equipment at the time. Again, they both make great products. At the price of the current focals, I sure would hope, and expect, them to beat the alexias, or I’d be disappointed at what I spent the money on.
tjassoc
258 posts
 
Well stated sppedbump6 - the point of the Focals being much more expensive than the Wilsons didn’t seem to be taken into consideration. I would expect the much more expensive Focals to outclass the significantly less Wilsons. If that wasn’t the case - that’s a significant exception.
And why are we bickering about what’s better. Let Jay spend time with these Focals and he’ll summarize his experiences, that’s what he’s always done in the past.
Also - addressing what Jay stated earlier about being honest when evaluating products. Being brutally honest doesn’t mean you have to disparage another company and / or product. Doing so isn’t professional and no one would want work with you. Also, realize there are people working hard on that project.
Stated another way - if world class runners ran a race, would coarsely criticizing the losers be constructive? It wouldn’t, rather it would demonstrate the unprofessionalism of the commentator.
Why do we repeatedly have to revert to such tactics?
How about enjoying the experiences Jay shares with everyone and if we disagree, you can state that constructively (or not) and move on.
Scary - how self-destructive human nature is.
jays_audio_lab's avatar
jays_audio_lab OP
5,381 posts
 
Comparing Alexia 2 to Focal Stella Evo isn’t apples to apples. I’ve already said the Stella EVO smokes Alexia 2.
This speaker is on another level specially in clarity and imaging. Not even in the same vicinity.
Once you hear a well designed beryllium, it’s hard to go back to a soft dome. The detail is absent on the soft dome and although our ears will get used to just about any kind of speaker, having a soft dome and a beryllium in the same room makes you realize real quick how much nuance and minute details are missing from the soft dome.
The extra bells and whistles found in beryllium is killer and i actually remember comparing the focal Scala and Sasha DAW at the same time and focal kept distancing itself when it came to resolution.
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
+1 speedbump 
This discussion is closed
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